Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

Sorry I shouldn’t rise to the bait.

Start your own thread Laxy. You wade in with incoherent nonsense on too many threads that relate to women’s spaces then disappear.

Start a thread explaining your opinion. How you have the time to do this with school runs/work presentations/feeding the kids is beyond me. Let alone the posts in the middle of the night. It is beyond ridiculous.

This thread and the previous threads are about employee single sex changing rooms in an NHS hospital.

One example given why the guidance is correct is of the awful repercussions for a transman placed on a mens psych ward in an NHS hospital.

On a previous thread you posted (06/10/26) - The problem is that you are assuming your understanding of "women" etc is the "unambiguous" one. But not everyone shares your definitions and values. To me a sign saying women is "unambiguously" for women and trans women.

To be fair I will ask you two direct questions

1. Do you believe transwomen should be placed in women’s prisons, women’s psych wards? They have signs saying women’s.
2. Do you believe transmen should be placed in men’s prisons, men’s psych wards? They have signs saying men’s.

I see we are at the stage where a person advocating for some spaces to be separated by "genitals" also thinks it's "obsessive" to advocate for that.

Same person who is going to read people's posts to decide whether or not to read them, is it?

Thanks for the misogynistic gif. 👌🏻

We know you think sex segregation is regressive - even extending that viewpoint to year 6 (10/11 year olds) mixed sex sleepovers (puberty, what puberty!). And you delegate the decision making on this to your daughters

I worked in The City mid 60’s to late 70’s so many inequalities from the word go: different starting pay scales and financial entitlements/ incentives, promotions and job opportunities virtually non existent, minimal maternity pay and no job returning rights, top of redundancy lists, office romances women had to leave and generally men able to insult women as and when they pleased. It’s taken a longtime to redress the imbalance but we did have ss toilets. Some of the Wine Bars in the square mile only had male toilets. At after work get togethers (organised by the men of course) us gals were advised make sure you go before leave work and not to drink too much…no relieving stations for us. The women were accused of being delicate flowers if they challenged policies. So sorry chaps, however you present even if taking on delicate flower personas there’s no going back from our current recognised rights including sss they were hard won.

I have been explaining why gender incongruence is a real psychological phenomenon and not an "ideology", why words are not facts, and why recognising someone's gender is not "lying ". I haven't waded into any discussion about how to organise psych wards and prisons.

You are being disingenuous as you have been clear in your posts that to you women = women and transwomen. The same must be true about men = men and transmen.

If biological sex matters on psych wards what about prisons?

I don’t think there’s anything abnormal, bad or wrong about being heterosexual. What I do have a problem with is the tendency to view everything through the lens of heterosexuality and heterosexual sexual practices, as though these provide a universal framework for understanding human relationships and interactions. They don’t, and applying that framework indiscriminately can lead us to sexualise relationships and experiences that aren’t inherently sexual, or reinforce sexist stereotypes about how men and women, and boys and girls, should behave and relate to one another

Exactly. That was the thinking behind my post to which Lacksie was replying.

There's this neologism, heteronormativity, which by its nature frames a mainly heterosexual society as oppressive. The majority of people being heterosexual suggests rather strongly that this is a normal sexuality. That a minority of people are homosexual doesn't prove that homosexuality is "abnormal" as in "bad" or "wrong", it shows that it is relatively unusual. But heterosexuality is the norm, and banging on about heteronormativity often seems to be a display of disapproval of that.

Please think of nauticant's blood pressure as another thread fills with incoherent bubbling.

No I'm not advocating for all spaces to become mixed. Why would I do that? I'm just really disturbed by the obsession that we seem to have developed in the UK of legally enforcing the organisation of people according to their genitals .

In that case I hope you don't mind being in the minority in your opinion, because most people don't share it. Segregation on the basis of physical sex is not only permissible but desirable in certain circumstances, especially when it involves people undressing or being in other ways vulnerable. In any case you can only consent to such situations for yourself. Consent is not transferable.

Do you? What about gender segregation? Or are you advocating for all spaces to be mixed sex and mixed gender?

Sure - the majority of people are heterosexual- which is why we live in a heteronormative society 🤷🏼‍♀️.

I do think sex segregation is regressive .

Do you honestly think that is what people are arguing for? all the time?
Or is it, yet again, more dishonesty?

Homophobes can't even attempt to argue their position truthfully.

I didn't express any views about where people "should" be "placed". I simply explained that some trans men use the men's loos 🥴🥴🥴🥴. They do.

The fact is it doesn't matter if you have a body that looks like you've been to the gym for hours each day or you've just emerged from a live sewer wearing ppe and breathing apparatus attached to a winch and covered in shit. Some bloke will in that moment want to shag you.

Aren’t we supposed to believe these are “GC as they come” women who are just asking questions and pointing out flaws in our arguments?

But the natural progression is, if they are men as you claim, they should be put in male spaces right? So according to your logic, thst poor girl was in the right place….

Lol, misogyny and homophobia (only towards women though) now being further defended ‘cos ‘profound heteronormativity that underlies this regressive desire to go back’.

Too right! This women hating stuff is regressive. Lackeys spreading an ideology which damages women’s rights. Oh, and I include lesbians as women because they are different to men. Because, well they’re women.

Wondering why so many have ‘this regressive desire to go back’ and sneer homophobically that lesbians are practically men. And others try to pretend this viewpoint is real progressive like.

ETA spellings

In the UK the great majority of people identify as heterosexual according to the Annual Population Survey conducted by the Office for National Statistics - over 90%. Other polling consistently shows that a sizeable majority of the population still prefer single-sex spaces such as toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards. Concerns for privacy, dignity and safety are NOT regressive, but respectful of human needs.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2024

Some bloke has joined the thread, pretending to be one of those new women - you know, the superwoman who is better than a real woman and more than a match for a gym fit man apparently.