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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

279 replies

nauticant · 04/10/2026 13:02

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

Thread 67: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584523-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-67 1 October 2026 to ????

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14
janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:34

DauntlessDamson · 06/10/2026 11:33

Talking of sourdough, the "mother" in my local independent bakers has died suddenly (RIP) and there will be no sourdough for the rest of the week, while a new starter is prepared. So it's a choice between granary or honey and spelt. First world problems eh? 🙄

Do you mean an actual person, or the sourdough itself as has died? Sorry to be thick!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 11:35

janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:34

And I've rather lost track of thing with the appeal - when is that due to happen? Do we have a date?

I think it’s early next year, could be wrong.

janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:36

Ah good. Isn't it crazy that I'm planning my calendar around ETs? Never thought in a million years that this would be something I'd be doing with my spare time.

DauntlessDamson · 06/10/2026 11:37

janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:34

Do you mean an actual person, or the sourdough itself as has died? Sorry to be thick!

The sourdough itself. The starter for all the baking is called the "mother". They keep it in a huge jar and feed it every day so that it is constantly growing, but sudden changes in conditions such as temperature can kill it off overnight and they have to start again. It's fascinating.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 11:39

Some have been going for decades apparently.

janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:40

I did not know that, and I have dabbled I sourdough myself. My 'mother' is currently in the freezer. It got too expensive with the leccy about the time of the Ukraine war so I froze some. I guess she's probably dead and needs removing! Time flies!

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 11:41

How do sourdough mothers die? (Oh cross posted I see, there was an explanation given.)

BTW I am totally fed up with a certain poster and have reported him/her to MN as a troll.

Keeptoiletssafe · 06/10/2026 11:43

janeszebra · 06/10/2026 11:36

Ah good. Isn't it crazy that I'm planning my calendar around ETs? Never thought in a million years that this would be something I'd be doing with my spare time.

I raise you with:
boring everyone with the health and safety reasons why toilets are designed as they are which feeds through into regulations and legislation.

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 11:50

IANAL but I am pretty sure that what was meant by men and women was defined decades ago, in a case called Corbett v. Corbett. Where what we then called a transvestite was 'married' to a man. Long, long before gender recognition certs. At a time when gender referred to learning grammar usually of foreign languages.

stickygotstuck · 06/10/2026 11:59

Justabaker · 06/10/2026 10:04

On the WI and Girl Guides question. I agree the battle continues inside both orgs. They are such juicy targets for those who seek to destroy anything that women have that excludes men.

Gender ideology is like Japanese knotweed. Bari Weiss said - about identity politics in general - that some institutions cannot be saved and the question is which ones to try and retrieve from the knotweed and which ones are allowed to die.

Preference cascades are funny things - I think there is a lot of inertia embedded in the grassroots of both organisations and there is a chance for them.

I think the Church of England might be beyond salvation (pun intended).

On the CofE question, I was interested to hear the other day during an interview with a priest that the Church of England is loosing many ordained priests to the Catholic Church.

In a nutshell, it appears many CofE priests have had it with the excessive progresism, plus they like to have firm doctrine to guide them. Which makes sense, I guess.

NowSober · 06/10/2026 12:11

stickygotstuck · 06/10/2026 11:59

On the CofE question, I was interested to hear the other day during an interview with a priest that the Church of England is loosing many ordained priests to the Catholic Church.

In a nutshell, it appears many CofE priests have had it with the excessive progresism, plus they like to have firm doctrine to guide them. Which makes sense, I guess.

CofE priests who defect to the Catholic priesthood aren't bound by a vow of celibacy so get to keep their wives.

stickygotstuck · 06/10/2026 12:18

NowSober · 06/10/2026 12:11

CofE priests who defect to the Catholic priesthood aren't bound by a vow of celibacy so get to keep their wives.

Do they? That's interesting. I never gave that a thought 🙈

I guess having to divorce to 'change jobs' as it were is a bit hard core. Having said that, I can see that storing trouble for later. Two tier celibacy?

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:20

CofE priests who defect to the Catholic priesthood aren't bound by a vow of celibacy so get to keep their wives.

That seems very unfair on committed Catholic priests. I recollect that Bruce Kent left the priesthood when he wanted to get married.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 06/10/2026 12:21

ickky · 06/10/2026 11:10

Is it worth me actually reading the last 700 posts from the last thread or is it all nonsense?

Did I miss anything relevant to the subject of Sandie Peggie?

You didn't miss anything important at all I don't think, maybe one of the more recent times or courier articles?

NowSober · 06/10/2026 12:21

stickygotstuck · 06/10/2026 12:18

Do they? That's interesting. I never gave that a thought 🙈

I guess having to divorce to 'change jobs' as it were is a bit hard core. Having said that, I can see that storing trouble for later. Two tier celibacy?

It's the answer to the trick question "Does the Catholic church allow married priests?". I have no idea whether the OG priests lumbered with a vow of celibacy resent the incomers flaunting their wives😀.

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:23

MN HQ have decided that a certain poster's tedious posts do not break their guidelines.

This is a mystery to me - completely derail a thread and it's OK? I have had posts pulled and a warning for much more minor transgressions. Perhaps this one will get pulled too and I'lll get my knuckles rapped?

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:26

You didn't miss anything important at all I don't think, maybe one of the more recent times or courier articles?

prh47bridge's posts were worth reading. Oh and you may be interested in culinary uses of rats. But about Sandie Peggie? No, nothing.

Lacksie · 06/10/2026 12:31

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:23

MN HQ have decided that a certain poster's tedious posts do not break their guidelines.

This is a mystery to me - completely derail a thread and it's OK? I have had posts pulled and a warning for much more minor transgressions. Perhaps this one will get pulled too and I'lll get my knuckles rapped?

Why do you think that posts analysing relevant law and expressing views on this subject that are not gender critical should be deleted for breaking guidelines? Surely that's just shutting down/ policing discussion.

I haven't derailed the thread at all, I've been engaging in a conversation with other posters about directly relevant law. Meanwhile there's been plenty of discussion on the threads that has nothing to do with the topic whatsoever.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 12:32

The only way to win is not to play.

Igmum · 06/10/2026 12:32

Thank you for trying Peregrina and here’s a couple of feline terfs who know that sex is real and that sometimes it is important.

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 12:34

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 11:50

IANAL but I am pretty sure that what was meant by men and women was defined decades ago, in a case called Corbett v. Corbett. Where what we then called a transvestite was 'married' to a man. Long, long before gender recognition certs. At a time when gender referred to learning grammar usually of foreign languages.

Yes I think you are correct.

MyrtleLion · 06/10/2026 12:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 12:32

The only way to win is not to play.

One of my favourite ways of winning.

Last week I was accused of hustling my way into a position rather than deserving it. I was delighted to recount all my many years of experience which demonstrated that I did indeed deserve it, and then walked away from it entirely.

I know my worth, and they didn’t deserve me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 12:39

MyrtleLion · 06/10/2026 12:38

One of my favourite ways of winning.

Last week I was accused of hustling my way into a position rather than deserving it. I was delighted to recount all my many years of experience which demonstrated that I did indeed deserve it, and then walked away from it entirely.

I know my worth, and they didn’t deserve me.

Edited

Well done 👏

Lacksie · 06/10/2026 12:44

Igmum · 06/10/2026 12:32

Thank you for trying Peregrina and here’s a couple of feline terfs who know that sex is real and that sometimes it is important.

Here's my baby. I have no idea what her attitudes are towards sex and gender.

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
Cailleach1 · 06/10/2026 12:52

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:20

CofE priests who defect to the Catholic priesthood aren't bound by a vow of celibacy so get to keep their wives.

That seems very unfair on committed Catholic priests. I recollect that Bruce Kent left the priesthood when he wanted to get married.

I recall a priest, in Westerham I think. He had been a priest, and had left the Catholic Church because of the celibacy rule. He decamped to the Church of England, and married.

Then when the CofE decided to allow women priests, he didn’t like that, and decamped back to the RC church , and was welcomed as a married priest.

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