Poking holes in condoms!

It literally is cutting/chopping. I’m glad you and your DH were on the same page, but I don’t think it’s “to be expected” of any man to do this. We choose what we are happy with for ourselves and what we are happy doing for others. This is not on my list of would-do or would-ask.

For ease, just assume mean male and female, no interest in opening the trans can of worms on a Mumsnet thread.

The general point is that, just because "rape" has a specific, legal meaning in the UK, doesn't mean that it's the only (or even ordinary) meaning of the word.

You make it sound like major surgery - it really isn't!
"A vasectomy is a quick, permanent surgical method of male contraception available through the NHS. A doctor cuts or seals the tubes (vas deferens) that carry sperm from the testicles."
Compare that to giving birth!!!!
I didn't need to ask my husband as he didn't want me to stay on hormonal contraceptives - and thus leave me suffering the side effects and increase my risks of various cancers - after our family was complete when there was no need to do so. He made the choice himself as an unselfish and caring husband.

Yes, as I said, I am glad you and your DH were on the same page.

Her behaviour is abhorrent. I cannot believe the number of women who see no issue with the behaviour. It would seem many women only believe consent matters for women.

It is not rape, but in my view it is certainly akin to sexual assault and utterly nullifies consent. I am not sure the legal position but if it isn’t a crime of some sort, it should be. His consent was given to have sex using a condom as contraception, he may not have chosen to have sex if his wife had refused to use one, so he did not give consent to unprotected intercourse. Either consent for both parties is important, or it is not.

Deliberately sabotaging the condom is a huge betrayal- you should be able to trust your spouse when you have both agreed a form of contraception. Deliberately sabotaging the agreed form of contraception is sexual coercion by deception. In some cases (unlikely this one), there is also the risk of STI spread if the barrier aspect of the condom has been broken (even pinpricks do impact on it’s efficacy as a barrier to infection). It is simply not justified, under any circumstances.

And if this woman has done nothing wrong, and therefore, her husband should be absolutely ok with what happened, why not be honest and tell him? Why should OP keep it to herself and not tell her husband? The answer is that even those defending it know it is wrong.

The fact that condoms are not 100% effective does not mean one partner is justified in sabotaging them. Yes, if you chose to have sex using only condoms as contraception, then you do have to accept there is some risk of failure. But that is not what happened in this case, so it’s not really relevant.

If you are unhappy with your partner’s position on having children/the number of children they want and you cannot persuade them otherwise, then you either accept it or end the relationship and find someone who shares your goals. You should not seek to meet your own desires by sexually assaulting your spouse. Being angry at being strung along with regard to having children/more children is a relationship problem, it does not make sexually assaulting your partner because they won’t agree to what you want.

I could not remain friends with her after this. This is not the behaviour of a trustworthy person- if she is happy to deceive and betray her husband to suit herself, she’s capable of doing it to you too. I just could not accept it. And I wouldn’t lie to anyone for her either. You haven’t caused the relationship to end, her own actions would be responsible for the outcome, if the marriage were to end.

When we finished having kids we used condoms for many years until I was no longer able to get pregnant.
DH wasn't massively opposed to vasectomy, but he was happy using condoms so we did.
Preferable to surgery in my opinion. Vasectomies can go wrong too.

Morally bankrupt sexual assault that would be nigh-impossible to prove. (I'd screenshot it if it was in a message).

The number of people defending or minimising these actions is frankly disturbing.

Absolutely not ok I’ve known 2 women (former friends) admit this. I have also told my adult kids this is exactly why contraceptives are something you are responsible for getting and using. No excuses for women who do this

Agree 100%

Re it being nigh-on impossible to prove - that's a lot like almost any rape or sexual assult in a domestic setting. That's why people do it and get away with it.

And fwiw, what the OP describes is blatantly caught by the law on sexual assault.

It's 100% unacceptable. My cousin's wife once hinted that she had done this to get pregnant (he hadn't wanted to be a father, and thought they were on the same page re: contraceptives). It is disgusting; it's non-consensual and a huge betrayal. Sounds like a marriage-ender to me. I would most likely tell my partner, knowing he'd tell his friend, because her husband deserves to know what he is married to.

That's reminded me of the French and Saunders sketchn😂

It doesn't sound like he was tricked tbh,he ended the relationship because he didn't want kids but turning into a FWB how did he think it would turn out any different if he was still having sex,he wasn't tricked he just should have kept it in his pants if he didn't want kids.

It's no wonder that we have so many "incels" if this thread is anything to go by.

Incels wish they could get that close to a woman.

Although I would hope the fact far more posts are condemning it than supporting it would stop people claiming mumsnet supports such behaviour.

In reality though theyll just ignore all the posts saying its a disgusting thing to do and claim mumsnetters say its fine.

And the people they tell about it will repeat it without bothering to check the thread and read for themselves.

Then it will be yet another stick to beat women with

The problem with condoms is they are not hugely reliable. And I couldn't risk getting pregnant again; it wouldn't have been a "happy accident" at all. My husband agreed that this was not a position he was prepared to risk putting me in.

I find this kind of thinking baffling. A condom is an acceptable method of contraception they've both agreed on. Why should he have to have a vasectomy or end a relationship when he should be able to trust a partner to not sabotage their contraception?! 🤯 Why can't the partner simply tell their partner they want a child and leave and find someone who does?

Women have agency to leave relationships or conceive alone with a donor. No amount of impatience for a child allows you to take away another person's agency through deception like this.

If a woman only consents to sex with a condom and the man takes it off during, it becomes rape.
Imo what she has done (sabotaged the condom making it ineffective) is exactly the same thing, he consented to protected sex with a condom, she's tampered with it so it isn't protected sex.

I couldn't stay friends with a rapist, and i'd 100% telling the husband what she has confessed so he can take legal action should he desire.

So, not married. Didn't want to get married. Chose not to use a condom? For whose benefit exactly? 🙄

Pretty sure you 'understand' it wrong.
The man has a choice to use a condom or not to use a condom. HIS choice. All this talk of 'tricking' when it really is that simple. The buck stops there 🤷‍♀️

Are you kidding?! It’s fucking awful behaviour.

An (ex) friend married her husband knowing he didn’t want to have children. They have 2, because she did this twice (the 2nd took a more sophisticated deception). They have a marriage in name only now.

My mum wanted another baby so skipped her pills. She’s very open about it. My dad doesn’t care. I think some people may find this more upsetting than others. Obviously I’m really happy she decided to do it as well.

No I don’t understand it wrong. I have it verbatim from both, thanks .

My mother TOLD me that father used to check her pill pack daily and was very clear that he did not want to get married or have children, or even have a long term relationship at all. They proceeded on a relationship in the 60s on that basis. She, however, decided that he was a good catch, wanted to trap him into marriage and so she used to flush her pill away and a) told him that she couldn’t use condoms because they irritated her, b) reassured him that this new invention the pill would keep them safe and then c) pretended she had taken it so that she would eventually fall pregnant. She lied and then acted surprised when she was pregnant. At which point she was more than surprised when he still refused to marry her. They BOTH told it this way.

In fact, my mother lived her entire life trapping people with her lies - she was a conwoman, thief and was convicted of fraud - in this case the woman was totally at fault. Because SOMETIMES, as in OP’s friend, women can be duplicitous, manipulative, AND criminal. And a man can be a victim too.

Or he naively (stupidly) trusted her. If she told him she was on the pill he’d have believed her if he assumed she wasn’t a selfish, fucked up human being