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Ooo, Jo Maugham isn't happy...

(314 Posts)
Xanthangum Mon 23-Nov-20 08:23:13

Jo Maugham (*@JolyonMaugham*) Tweeted:
"We waited some weeks for the BBC to be ready to cover our legal action to protect the legal rights of trans children. And the piece is up and is quite extraordinary. I'm not going to link to it because it is inaccurate and gives space to a transphobic hate group." twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1330758709140729856?s=20

Which I assume refers to this piece:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55015959

And he says this about LGB Alliance, which feels stupidly for a lawyer libellous: The third point is they have quoted the so-called LGB Alliance - a dark money funded astro-turfed hate group - on the healthcare of trans teenagers. What next? Will the BBC be quoting white supremacists on whether sickle cell anaemia should be treated on the NHS?

OP’s posts: |
Aesopfable Mon 23-Nov-20 08:29:49

What next? Will the BBC be quoting white supremacists on whether sickle cell anaemia should be treated on the NHS?

Or LBGT groups on Intersex
Or LGBT groups whether women should have single sex prisons
Or Men on whether sex should be a protected characteristic for hate
Or gay men and transwomen on whether women’s bodies should used by them to buy babies
...

Xanthangum Mon 23-Nov-20 08:31:10

Just spotted the BBC article is by.... Ben Hunte.

OP’s posts: |
rogdmum Mon 23-Nov-20 08:38:02

I’m wondering whether this is why the article was delayed from the expected release last Wed- did someone at the BBC tell Ben he needed to be balanced and interview people with other opinions?

SophocIestheFox Mon 23-Nov-20 08:39:43

What is Maugham’s angle on this?

He’s completely intemperate on this topic, there’s no balance at all, no carefully considered, lawyerly language you’d expect.

I also note that his point on puberty blockers is to prevent the voice from dropping, or the Adam’s apple developing. Which is a bit weird given that we know the numbers of girls vs boys identifying as trans at/around puberty.also, he seems to have missed the memo that the NHS is now shying away from describing GnRH treatment as “fully reversible”.

Hmmm.

Kit19 Mon 23-Nov-20 08:40:51

He probably has libelled LGB alliance but he’ll think that doesn’t matter. That’s the impression ppl will have, if at some point the bbc apologise & retract it’ll be in a tiny statement somehete & everyone will have forgotten the story it was attached too

He uses exactly the tactics he spends so much time slagging other ppl off for

sashagabadon Mon 23-Nov-20 08:41:15

Seems a balanced article to me?
I can’t understand jolyon’s point in his Twitter feed. He uses the example of why puberty blockers are important at an early age as otherwise Adam’s apple will drop and voice changes. But surely that is only applicable for male to female people. Reece is a female to male and so no need to worry about these two possible “negative” effects of puberty?
What are the positive affects of puberty blockers on female to male transitioners? Are there any? And if there are, why not use those in his Twitter argument instead?

Kit19 Mon 23-Nov-20 08:42:12

Last time I speculated on why he’s so vehement Sophocles I got a delete & a warning....

Aesopfable Mon 23-Nov-20 08:43:53

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 23-Nov-20 08:47:14

Jolyon has made it clear that he has got skin in the game. This is impacting his ability to view the issue dispassionately hence his extraordinary outburst re the LGB Alliance. If the Good Law Project is not solely him he should really take a step back in this and let some more neutral take over.

I am a bit confused by his expectations too - NHS timescales are not met across a vast swathe of areas, this is in no way unique to the treatment of children identifying as transgender. Im not sure how his demands can be realistically met?

FamilyOfAliens Mon 23-Nov-20 08:47:15

It does seem in incredibly poor taste to be berating the currently overwhelmed NHS about not seeing gender questioning children quickly enough, when people are dying because their life-saving cancer treatments have been paused.

OldCrone Mon 23-Nov-20 08:49:54

He seems a bit confused about biology in this tweet.

The second point is that the piece ignores why accessing puberty blockers is urgent. If you don't have the breathing space of puberty blockers your body changes - your adam's apple might drop and your voice change - in ways that are difficult or impossible to reverse later.
mobile.twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1330762556726796288

These irreversible changes only happen to boys, but the child he's talking about is female.

I suspect that one reason TRAs are so keen to stop trans identified children going through puberty is because they know that if those children have no physical treatment 80%+ will desist after puberty, and they want to keep the numbers up. No idea what Maugham's motivation is though. Those tweets make him sound unhinged.

SophocIestheFox Mon 23-Nov-20 08:51:15

FamilyOfAliens

It does seem in incredibly poor taste to be berating the currently overwhelmed NHS about not seeing gender questioning children quickly enough, when people are dying because their life-saving cancer treatments have been paused.

Doesn’t it just?

I can imagine you did, Kit, but I won’t say why or I’ll get pinged too 😬

HecatesCats Mon 23-Nov-20 08:51:15

"We waited some weeks for the BBC to be ready to swallow our press release without question"

wellthatsunusual Mon 23-Nov-20 08:51:28

This 'it takes too long to see a specialist, we're being discriminated against' thing really pisses me off.

People are waiting years in my area for hip replacements, gynae appointments, ent appointments, rheumatology appointments, mental health help. There's nothing special about gender clinics.

nauticant Mon 23-Nov-20 08:53:20

Just in case

web.archive.org/web/20201123085114/https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1330765359222296576

archive.fo/wip/IU9IN

HecatesCats Mon 23-Nov-20 09:00:01


He's gone full tin foil hat

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 23-Nov-20 09:01:52

He's gone full tin foil hat

That's what happens when for personal reasons you simply cannot allow yourself to consider the alternatives.

NotTerfNorCis Mon 23-Nov-20 09:02:13

I see Maugham is quoted at length in the BBC article and there is a quote from the other point of view to balance him. The BBC is obliged to be balanced.

For some reason this has infuriated Maugham.

nauticant Mon 23-Nov-20 09:02:36

Im not sure how his demands can be realistically met?

If it's impossible for the NHS to meet the vast demand then will they in some way withdraw or limit the existing gender service? I can't help but think that this legal challenge risks being counter-productive for the gender identity cause.

Tootsweets23 Mon 23-Nov-20 09:02:48

When we look back on this case and his actions in general we will say "ah, it is obvious now why he did what he did".

TweeBree Mon 23-Nov-20 09:03:10

"we believe the law shows they should be providing alternative care to anyone on the waiting list. That could include private and overseas healthcare."

They can't vote or drink or get a tattoo, and their brains haven't finished developing yet, let alone their bodies - but yes, let's send 14-year-olds abroad to have experimental, irreversible treatments. What could go wrong??

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 23-Nov-20 09:05:05

we believe the law shows they should be providing alternative care to anyone on the waiting list. That could include private and overseas healthcare.

Presumably if that is the case that would apply to all on waiting lists and I am fairly sure the NHS simply can't afford to do that.

NancyDrawed Mon 23-Nov-20 09:05:30

'I made - and Reece made - this point very carefully. If you hang around for years on a waiting list without the suspensory effect of reversible puberty blockers you are most likely (few teenagers detransition) creating pointless scarring and an unnecessary need for extra surgery'

^ From JoM's twitter, my bold

Where has he found these reversible puberty blockers, because the NHS doesn't know about them, it seems. And I thought that teenagers DID detransition if their dysphoria was managed in a watchful waiting way.

NotTerfNorCis Mon 23-Nov-20 09:06:35

Also, I see he's complaining because the BBC didn't mention his argument about suicide risks. The BBC steers away from mentioning suicide because normalizing it is dangerous ("kids who are denied puberty blockers will become suicidal" - imagine the effect of that on a vulnerable mind).

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