Handmaidens

[Terfulike]

I seem to be coming across these people more and more in the last week or so. Admittedly the video I describe below is 8 months old.

However, there are definitely more numerous postings/videos from young females (of the traditional type) who are trying to educate us GC Radfems about being too exclusionary, if you catch my drift, as such types as us may be physically threatening... no examples given.

My reason for posting is that one just got my goat quite big time (clip clip clopping across the bridge of reason).

This young person of the type traditionally (although admittedly not currently) referred to as female, or even young woman, (though obviously not these days - I acknowledge that these are considered by most Britons to be archaic terms - please forgive my usage mn) was describing people of the type who post on this particular site who are a bit exclusionary wink wink catch my drift with great disdain.

Anyway said person said that the word "lesbian" is basically an "uncomfortable" word with "*exclusionary connotations" and is "just wierd". Hmmmmm what did someone say about erasure?

Moreover GC Radfems are said by said vlogerette to be in positions of great power and influence these days ready to turn the heads of gullible young feminists in completely inappropriate directions.

Further, said person claims any discussions of paralegal philandering (quick crossword clue) are utterly ridiculous!

This highly commended video ends with scoffing at ideas of the f body being at all relevant to feminism.

Apologies if this has been discused before.

Handmaiden is a good ironic shorthand for women who happily prioritise the wishes of misogynists to the detriment of other women.

It’s a traditional descriptor of patriarchal approval for a woman performing some kind of limited, secondary, gendered role in a male-approved way. Often linked to caring, nurturing and humble servitude.

If you think ‘handmaiden’ shouldn’t be said because it’s a misogynistic term you are utterly missing the point and the irony. It is feminists subverting the use of a misogynist term. To critique internalised misogyny.

By the way lots of people on FWR slso express concern for the handmaidens of TRAs. Handmaidens think they are defending the rights of a noble cause in not valuing the difference between male and female but they put themselves at risk by doing it.

if they step out of line, Male bodied TRAs will intimidate them (or worse) in a shockingly unsisterly way.

I think some of that is caught on video at Speakers Corner where a handmaiden was calling for a TRA to stop some of the male violence on Maria (grandmother who was punched to the ground by this male bodied person). The handmaiden was squared up to for that.

Interesting point about 'handmaiden' but they are. Probably not really their fault. But when you're a handmaiden, I guess it never is.

I think the term handmaiden is downright nasty and derogatory, and is used on MN all the time to posters who disagree with some feminists viewpoints.

“I think the term handmaiden is downright nasty and derogatory, and is used on MN all the time to posters who disagree with some feminists viewpoints.”

No, it isn’t. It is used on Mumsnet and elsewhere to describe women who behave in “downright nasty” ways.

Also handmaiden to my mind is not at all an age specific term.

I see it all the bloody time at work from all ages, prioritising male feelings and lauding male accomplishment (when it’s not achievement in any way unique to those males..). 🙄

No, it isn’t. It is used on Mumsnet and elsewhere to describe women who behave in “downright nasty” ways.

Many do accept some of these Aunts/handmaids are vulnerable which is partly why they are Aunts/handmaids.

People are allowed to be frustrated at women damaging other women, working for males, whilst pretending to be feminists. These people are frauds, to themselves and other women in the eyes of some.

Watched these videos Totally bizarre.
Does they really believe that bonkers stuff
Explaining women to women
Do they live in wee bubbles of life where that junk is believed
Gawd

Unfortunately the handmaidens that I work with wouldn’t say they are feminists. They prioritise men because it works for them. Either that or they think it’s just the natural order of things. They don’t like other women who try to kick against that.

Do they live in wee bubbles of life where that junk is believed

Very young teens buy into this yes, as do vulnerable young women.

Unfortunately the handmaidens that I work with wouldn’t say they are feminists. They prioritise men because it works for them. Either that or they think it’s just the natural order of things. They don’t like other women who try to kick against that.

The natural order comes down to male violence and following on from that fear it leads to psychological male power and control over women and children. They either believe the women are to be a society resource or their own personal resource, many women are happy to be used by males.

Sorry Bertrand but my (and others) personal experience on MN says otherwise. It is very off-putting and distasteful. Extremely so.

And this whole conversation about which derogatory term we can best think of to discribe women whose views we don't like, is exactly why so many women agree with the idea of female equality but don't identitfy with feminists.

“And this whole conversation about which derogatory term we can best think of to discribe women whose views we don't like, is exactly why so many women agree with the idea of female equality but don't identitfy with feminists“

As I said, it’s not about “views we don’t like”. As I think this thread makes clear. But it’s obvious that you’re not interested in discussion, which is a shame.

I'm guessing it came from Margaret Atwood's novel? I wonder how she feels about to current useage.

It's interesting to hear what other posters mean by it. It's been used on me a few times here, so it's handy to know more about what I'm being labelled as. I got from the context that it wasn't intended as a compliment!

For the record, I'm not young, not in thrall to men or misogyny etc etc, not a prioritiser of men over women. And I've seen it used in here lots of times to posters who aren't being "downright nasty" but are challenging to posts by GC regulars.

I don't think it should be banned, but I have seen it used here as a pejorative to posters who don't conform to the prevailing GC views.

If I may lower the tone slightly.

That very well-spoken green haired person in the video expounding on the evils of TERFdom, clearly didn’t googled ‘TERF fringe’ or ‘TERF bangs’ before visiting her hairstylist.

There’s a load of memes out there from a TRA point of view mocking this particular look as the preserve of evil gender critical feminists.

Which shows a petty, sexist, vacuous mindset right there, really.

Really Antique ?

I’m surprised that it’s not okay to talk about the views of others, just because they are women. It seems to me that this handmaiden type of thinking is an identifiable and observable mindset that is in contrast to feminist progression.

I’m quite new to the details of feminism. I’m fairly young (I think, 24), my voice is high pitched (!) but I could never agree with what these young women are saying. It frankly sounds like a load of ill thought out bollocks designed to be socially progressive (with which I empathise and understand why you would want to be, it’s what we should all be) but lacks critical thinking, context and has very little substance below the surface.

I actually lost a friend to this kind of thinking and I know it’s going to sound offensive but I think there is weight to it - this friend went to uni, an echo chamber of young people with very little life experience, testing out both their sexuality and ability to form social opinion for the first time. I went straight into work and had an altogether different experience in my formative years.

I do agree that it is opinion voices purely to support groups they perceived to be oppressed. But intelligence and understanding the wider contexts of the ideas they are purporting are essential, and these women are either lacking it or choosing to ignore it.

^^ I was referring to the petty, sexist, vacuous mindset^ of those people making derogatory ‘TERF’ hairstyle memes, of course. For the avoidance of any doubt.

Bertrand I am afraid I did not understand this sentence:

Proper eye to the main chance.
Sorry- what does that mean?

There is also that well known anti feminist Morton’s Fork. If a feminist agrees with another woman it’s “Oh, feminists think all women are angels and can do no wrong”. If a feminist disagrees with another woman, the response is “What’s happened to the sisterhood - women just can’t wait to tear other women down”.

But it’s obvious that you’re not interested in discussion, which is a shame.

No it would be pointless I agree.

“Eye to the main chance”? Sorry- I am very old so my language might be a bit old fashioned sometimes. It means keeping a close eye on what would be most to your personal advantage.

Who isn’t interested in discussion?

Isn’t this a discussion?

As far as I can see, every oppressed group has a derogatory name for people within that group who side with the oppressor, be it oppression based on race, class, sex or whatever. And often, as with "handmaiden", the whole point of the choice of derogatory term is an ironic reference to how the oppressing class sees the people they're oppressing. The idea is that you (generic you, the class traitor) are knowingingly deciding to side with the oppressor on the oppressor's terms, for material gain, which means you have willingly embraced the stereotypes the oppressor wants to impose on all of your class.

And the whole point of a derogatory term is to be, well, derogatory.

But it's quite entertaining to have a think through the long list of alternatives to handmaiden we could borrow ... I quite fancy "scab" myself (the term for a working class manual worker who deliberately crosses picket lines and breaks strikes). "Scab" pretty much covers the behaviour under discussion.

I actually lost a friend to this kind of thinking and I know it’s going to sound offensive but I think there is weight to it - this friend went to uni, an echo chamber of young people with very little life experience, testing out both their sexuality and ability to form social opinion for the first time. I went straight into work and had an altogether different experience in my formative years.

I sarted full-time employment at 16, then moved out of home soon after.

Uni in my opinion prolongs childhood. I saw this with my peers.

These people include a group of graduates that then spend the rest of their life, believing they are superior to others who have lead a different life path.

This comes out in various ways, in language, when they are speaking to people who are not exclusively at their education level, they do this to exclude people from the conversation and to make themselves look superior etc.

Another way is to dismiss others life experience and opinion, think Brown and his bigot experience, or the way some behave to this day over Brexit.

Some women may not see how they come across to others when they bend to placing males first, like some graduates who don't realise how snobby and know it all, they come across, when they don't know it all.

Much as with all the terms we're being told not to use the issue isn't with the word itself, it's with what it conveys. Apparently women aren't allowed to be disgusted with those among us who've decided to actively throw other women under the bus because that benefits them in some way.

Or a feminine version of Uncle Tom. Aunt Katie? Aunt Laura?