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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Handmaidens

213 replies

Terfulike · 21/06/2018 23:22

I seem to be coming across these people more and more in the last week or so. Admittedly the video I describe below is 8 months old.

However, there are definitely more numerous postings/videos from young females (of the traditional type) who are trying to educate us GC Radfems about being too exclusionary, if you catch my drift, as such types as us may be physically threatening... no examples given.

My reason for posting is that one just got my goat quite big time (clip clip clopping across the bridge of reason).

This young person of the type traditionally (although admittedly not currently) referred to as female, or even young woman, (though obviously not these days - I acknowledge that these are considered by most Britons to be archaic terms - please forgive my usage mn) was describing people of the type who post on this particular site who are a bit exclusionary wink wink catch my drift with great disdain.

Anyway said person said that the word "lesbian" is basically an "uncomfortable" word with "*exclusionary connotations" and is "just wierd". Hmmmmm what did someone say about erasure?

Moreover GC Radfems are said by said vlogerette to be in positions of great power and influence these days ready to turn the heads of gullible young feminists in completely inappropriate directions.

Further, said person claims any discussions of paralegal philandering (quick crossword clue) are utterly ridiculous!

This highly commended video ends with scoffing at ideas of the f body being at all relevant to feminism.

Apologies if this has been discused before.

OP posts:
LassWiADelicateAir · 22/06/2018 20:40

For what its worth ive never used handmaiden and I can't see how i ever will...im just gonna stick with 'stupid fucking twunt' as it works for me

Well possibly if one can objectively justify what is so stupid about the behaviour. I was told only this week that I collude in my own oppression. I'm not prepared to treat comments like that seriously.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 20:43

In which case lass you can also use my patented catch all insult as it will work for people who tell you that you are colluding

Its not gendered and you can say it in your head as loudly as you like

I would suggest not typing it AT posters on here or saying it out loud at work

But apart form that...have at it

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 20:44

Oh and i dont have to objectively justify

I think all sorts of things/people are stupid fucking twunts

My ipad for example

FloralBunting · 22/06/2018 20:46

Well, yes. It would be tremendous to move away from all the self censoring pretzeling ourselves up about whether we all approve of certain words that seems to be what an un-named group of people have deemed is the current purpose of FWR on MN.

And, I don't know, discuss the videos posted by women who could reasonably be described as acquiescing to the prevailing transactivist narrative?

Alaaya · 22/06/2018 20:47

womanformallyknownaswoman - for what it's worth, a name change. I don't keep the same name on MN for long although to be fair I've never posted on feminism chat before. I'm sorry if I caused offence and looking through this section I see it is a very specific interest area and with a particular close knit group of posters so it probably wasn't appropriate to engage as an outsider. Apologies again.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 20:49

alaaya

I cant remember what you said but do stay, it is good to hear the different views of posters even if people dont agree with your opinions

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 20:52

Yep

Go for it flora

I personally am worried about all the comments re genital preferences being transphobic

I appreciate that it seems to be some randoms on social media but that doesnt mean that those sorts of statements can't be harmful

FloralBunting · 22/06/2018 21:00

Well, that's the thing, randoms on YouTube have one hell of a powerful reach these days.

I was interested in some of the comments underneath one of the videos that discussed gay men and their 'genital preferences' because it's the first time I've seen anyone approach that at any length, as opposed to the relentless focus and 'distaste' for women actually being lesbians by these people.

And the persistent refrain is "Of course you don't have to sleep with anyone you don't want to. But you should reflect on that..."

It gives them enough plausible deniability to point to the first sentence and pretend the coercion in the second sentence isn't really there.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2018 21:11

“I'm sorry if I caused offence and looking through this section I see it is a very specific interest area and with a particular close knit group of posters so it probably wasn't appropriate to engage as an outsider. Apologies again.”

Don’t be silly. One person said something disobliging. One!. Don’t do the classic “Oh, they’re all cliquey and mean on FWR” Other people, including me, engaged and discussed with you. And there are plenty of different opinions- you could have posted more if you had wanted to.

Alaaya · 22/06/2018 21:12

Rufustheyawningreindeer - thank you for the kindness. I was the first person to say I didn't like the word "handmaiden" which I think has been taken as deliberate trolling or something. That really wasn't my intent - I thought I was just joining in a conversation and I'm used to discussions about language being a thing, and thought there were some interesting follow up comments from folk too. But if I have offended people I am sorry.

Alaaya · 22/06/2018 21:15

BertrandRussell - I'm sorry! I wasn't meaning to be passive aggressive either. Argh! No idea how to respond.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2018 21:15

“But if I have offended people I am sorry.”

You haven’t offended anyone. Keep posting.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2018 21:16

Just keep posting your thoughts and opinions. Question people. Reply to people. Piss some people off. Delight others. That’s what it’s all about.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 21:17

alaaya

I really dont think youve offended anyone

And i had to go all the way back to page 1 to find out what you said

Stay Smile

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 22/06/2018 21:19

Oh and bertrand said it much better

AngryAttackKittens · 22/06/2018 21:21

Foucault (20th century philosopher) says possessing political power enables you to control what counts as scientific knowledge

Sadly he wasn't wrong about this, but what the current pomo movement has done with this idea is downright unethical.

FloralBunting · 22/06/2018 21:23

Alaaya, please, you made a comment about something you find difficult, which is fair enough. It became a language tangent because that's the climate of this section of MN right now, but that's not your fault, and no one wants to chase you off.

Now, back to the videos...

FermatsTheorem · 22/06/2018 21:39

Yes, AAK, like you I think a lot of what Foucault had to say was brilliant. As a working scientist I watch the sociology of science - both at the micro scale of who's in, who's out in the group and at the macro scale with its inevitable politicisation - play out on an almost daily basis. But it also remains true that the external, objective world ultimately places huge constraints on you - ultimately you can't make the world bend to politics (though scientists, as human beings, shaped by their societies, can be hugely selective as to which bits they choose to look at).

Like you, I see the problem as lying in the bastardisation of these views by people who don't really understand them properly.

nauticant · 22/06/2018 22:01

ultimately you can't make the world bend to politics

The game here is "you can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time" and there's no need to worry about the rest of the quote.

LangCleg · 22/06/2018 22:16

genital preferences

How these pomo-addled fools - see what I did there?! - can say this and not understand it to be raging homophobia is utterly beyond me. This is where social constructionism gets you.

AngryAttackKittens · 22/06/2018 22:39

I have a preference for gelato over other types of ice cream. My sexual orientation is another category of thing entirely.

LassWiADelicateAir · 22/06/2018 23:27

alaaya

You haven't offended me. Handmaiden is every bit as bad as the word we can't use beginning with t as far as I'm concerned.

I would never use any of Uncle Tom, handmaiden or scab.

thebewilderness · 22/06/2018 23:34

Alaaya

The things we do not all agree on are the most interesting to discuss.

thebewilderness · 22/06/2018 23:52

But that's not what "handmaiden" refers to, is it. It's certainly not those that it refers to in the book.

The Bible predates "The Handmaid's Tale" by two thousand years.

LassWiADelicateAir · 22/06/2018 23:58

Ecce ancilla domini.

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