Handmaidens

[Terfulike]

I seem to be coming across these people more and more in the last week or so. Admittedly the video I describe below is 8 months old.

However, there are definitely more numerous postings/videos from young females (of the traditional type) who are trying to educate us GC Radfems about being too exclusionary, if you catch my drift, as such types as us may be physically threatening... no examples given.

My reason for posting is that one just got my goat quite big time (clip clip clopping across the bridge of reason).

This young person of the type traditionally (although admittedly not currently) referred to as female, or even young woman, (though obviously not these days - I acknowledge that these are considered by most Britons to be archaic terms - please forgive my usage mn) was describing people of the type who post on this particular site who are a bit exclusionary wink wink catch my drift with great disdain.

Anyway said person said that the word "lesbian" is basically an "uncomfortable" word with "*exclusionary connotations" and is "just wierd". Hmmmmm what did someone say about erasure?

Moreover GC Radfems are said by said vlogerette to be in positions of great power and influence these days ready to turn the heads of gullible young feminists in completely inappropriate directions.

Further, said person claims any discussions of paralegal philandering (quick crossword clue) are utterly ridiculous!

This highly commended video ends with scoffing at ideas of the f body being at all relevant to feminism.

Apologies if this has been discused before.

I can tell you what I know and that is that I know nothing!

Auntie Phyllis in honor of Phyllis Schlafly?

Agreed Prosperous, although some of the superiority is obvious naivety, it doesn’t change the fact that these attitudes exist and are perpetuated. There’s an almost arrogance, especially when one makes YouTube videos to “school” other people in your radical amazing very smart progressive thinking. But people who are over a certain arbitrary age can’t possibily disagree with you because you are wrong, it can’t possibly because they have much more life experience and can offer a more measured and contextualised opinion, it must because they are out of touch and set in their ways

And yes, the fringe on miss seafoam hair was hilarious if you're familiar with the Tumblr meme.

If you're going to insult someone I do wish it could be done without bringing their womanhood into it, and tying the insult in with their sex. Handmaiden is an slur only a woman can suffer; as if it's reasonable to expect more/different from women, and as if you have a right to judge them on the basis of her womanhood to different standards than you would a man. You do not. I really, really hate gendered insults, and I never thought I'd hear them so vociferously defended amongst feminists.

Fermat yes ‘scab’ conveys it well, because of the often material, personal damage the scabbish view-holder does.

There’s also ‘traitor’ for the self-serving ones who know what they are doing. That has scrolled through my mind a few times in professional settings.

or your non- blamey, big standard ignorant and naive’ for those who haven’t really thought it all through, but still like to tell the rest of us that we have got it all wrong.

*bog standard

Agree that perhaps the term could be changed from hand maiden maybe

For me the term ‘handmaiden’ encapsulates the ideology that women dont have a right to their own boundaries. (It doesn’t matter that you don’t want to be penetrated by a penis you must allow yourself to be penetrated for the good of society).

What worries me is do these young women genuinely think it’s ok to be uncomfortable with a sexual partner? And why do they think that?

Is there a link in the increase of porn (particularly violent porn), and women’s consent to their own boundaries being removed ?

I am just a knuckle dragging older woman with life experience, no I am past it etc. Not a know it all under graduate with unnatural hair colour and superior knowledge.

Handmaid or Aunt, I dont see how the term is more misogynistic than their behaviour. Its like objecting to Myra Hindley being labelled abusive.

Its a term only women can be labelled with, as its a type of behaviour limited to women who collude with misogyny and the patriarchy.
Objecting to the term is ironic, from posters who have defended and used terms which have since been banned by MNHQ.

Aunt Mary-Sue?

Thanks Bertrand - I am not much younger than thee, but haven't come across that phrase before.

I had the Manic Panic hair too at that age, and on behalf of those who love it am sad that it's now associated with being a smug little shit in the minds of people outside specific subcultures.

What worries me is do these young women genuinely think it’s ok to be uncomfortable with a sexual partner? And why do they think that?

I have seen tweets from someone I vaguely know, she is middle-class, heavily in momentum labour youth and has an unnatural hair colour, full on TRA under graduate. This young woman says she was brought into sex work by her momentum partner and is now HIV positive.

This young woman says she was brought into sex work by her momentum partner and is now HIV positive.

You know those moments when you feel like if climate change took the entire human race out it might not be such a bad thing?

Meh, I've never said TERF in my life. Gendered insult, I really hate them.

The thing with handmaiden is that if a man behaved in the same way he would not be subject to the same vitriolic insult. A woman suffers more for her being a woman, when her behavior may be no different from that of a man. And yet because she is a woman there is a special word to tear her down.

Women do not "collude" with the patriarchy; women are subjugated by the patriarchy. If a woman goes against it that is commendable, but when she doesn't that is not mean she is traiterous. Because her default position will be what is imposed upon her. And yet when a woman - the one with the least power over the patriarchy - does not resist it you have a special word to insult her in her womanhood.

That's not my feminism.

Anyway has anyone watched it ?

Yes, and I clocked that one of her resources for further information is none other than Riley Dennis of lesbians are transphobic if they won't accept dick fame.

One of the comments under the video is good.

----------
Dackjanielsmeup

"If you include sterile women why not also include trans women?"
Sterile women are not equivalent to male bodied people (aka trans "women"). I don't understand how you can't see that this is sooo offensive.
Your reasoning is flawed:
"There are rams and ewes. But some sheep are born with disorders of sex development (DSDs). Some ewes have hysterectomies. Therefore, there is no such thing as a biological ram or ewe. In fact, fully developed rams can actually be ewes!"
Do you see the problem with that logic? You are saying that because some people have female-specific fertility issues, there is no such thing as a female! If there is no such thing as male or female, how are people even claiming to be male or female? Because they follow male / female social roles?? Utter nonsense.

“Handmaiden is an slur only a woman can suffer”

A handmaiden is something only a woman can be. Only a black person can be an Uncle Tom. Only a union member can be a scab.

“And yet when a woman - the one with the least power over the patriarchy - does not resist it you have a special word to insult her in her womanhood“

There are some women who make active choices to ollude with the Patriarchy. It is naive and patronizing and denying agency to say there aren’t.

Ann Coulter, unwilling slave of the patriarchy rather than eager collaborator. Ayn Rand, same.

Rat I do see where you are coming from but I agree with Bertrand. It is gender specific because feminism is gender specific, so to be a woman who essentialy rejects feminism in favour of the patriarchy is different to a man who thinks the same thing. The oppressor (the man) and the hand maiden (the woman) both have different roles but ultimately are both misogynistic.

I don’t know exactly how I feel about whether you can say it is so much worse to be a hand maiden because you are a woman, because I do understand your point about subjugation. But at the same time, I do believe in accountability strongly even if you have reasons to supposedly justify the way you act. Especially in our modern western society, I don’t think women could claim out right day to day fear of being strongly acted against by oppressors for not agreeing with the hand maiden ideology- in other words, it’s not under great duress or universal societal stigmatism (anymore) that makes women reject feminism. It is at least in part a conclusion that a woman comes to on her own.

So when a very wealthy, comfortable female Telegraph columnist (naming no names) writes endless columns about efforts to improve conviction rates for rape, all of which centre round her repeated theme of "this feminism gorn too far makes me fear for my sons... I mean, how are they supposed to know when they've stuck their dick in an unwilling woman? And now someone wants to punish them for normal male behaviour. The world's gorn mad, I tell you..." she's doing so because she's subjugated by the patriarchy?

Not buying it.

Some people decide, willingly and in the absence of coercion, to be traitors. They are scum. They deserve a word which conveys the fact that they are scum.

There are some women who make active choices to ollude with the Patriarchy. It is naive and patronizing and denying agency to say there aren’t.

But that's not what "handmaiden" refers to, is it. It's certainly not those that it refers to in the book.

And those who collude actively with the patriarchy, they are also stepping out of their "woman" role, because it is not usually for women under the patriarchy to exercise much agency. So if you're going to insult her for it, I would suggest a non-gendered insult would be appropriate, because the behavior you're insulting is not a behavior you don't like on account of her gender, rather it is simply a behavior you don't like. You'd like it just as little if it were a man. Why save a special insult just for a woman?

I find pomo-addled to be a good alternative to handmaiden if you're instinctively against using gendered pejoratives against particular women or groups of women. It's more accurate of the world view, can be applied to both men and women, and gets a good snotty insult in to boot!

And it is also contradictory to claim the term hand maiden is insulting because it suggests that women are just bending to male will with no thought of their own, and also to say that it is offensive to use derogatory terms to women who act like hand maidens because they have no control over their actions because they are just subjugated by the patriarchy. A direct contradiction, but I think it was a different poster who said the former (don’t have time to check or quote, I should be working!)