No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

[CaitlynsCat]

abc30.com/3514544/

'It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true.'

'
The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.
'

'Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.'

This would simply never happen

Note that the TW who they, bizarrely, choose to interview on how the shelter is super-accepting towards TW (hardly the point of the article I would have thought) is apparently themselves less than upstanding.

"The staff was extremely accommodating," said Michelle Nastasis, a transgender professional poker player who stayed at Naomi's House a couple years ago. "In fact, we worked out a system where none of the girls would be offended when I went to take a shower."

Nastasis says she got along with some of the women who filed the lawsuit and everybody treated her with respect. "

www.gofundme.com/4aoh30w

"Oh Michelle Nastasis , I wanted to say FU and let you know that the flowers that I ordered for you since you scammed in believing you were attacked and beaten up due to a hate crime against transgender women in Fresno, California and trying to deliver to you several times in Fresno Hospital which were discharged and come to find out your in a shelter scamming them.

It was always going to happen. I think self ID is ultimately doomed because men WILL abuse it.
The issue is how many women are abused and leered at before law makers and politicians see sense. Self ID only benefits the voyeurs.
it doesn't help the credibility of the trans community or women.

Oh, here is another example of that thing happening that is never going to happen.

They have a grand solution to the fact a male pervert has scammed his way into a vulnerable women's safe space.
Shower curtains.

This is where we are.

That’s awful. It’s not that they don’t respect her as a women, it’s that they object to the persons behaviour as a a sexual harasser.

How would the house deal with a biological woman that intimidated and harassed others in the shower? What are the standards of conduct for all people there?

But of course this would never happen. A true TW would never do this, and no man would take advantage of policy to sexually harass some. Therefore it hasn’t and can’t happen.

Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees

There seem to be a lot of opportunities for people who transition to become trainers / consultants / advisers etc.

"a male pervert has scammed his way"

Not really much of a scam is it? Most TW are sexually attracted to women, some are perverts, trans is self-id, so there's not really a scam as such here.

If you accept TW in your women's shelter then you accept this. No debate.

"There seem to be a lot of opportunities for people who transition to become trainers / consultants / advisers etc."

That Michelle person is also a trainer.

Another example of women having to cede private space to TRAs.

I wonder what the having to shower in groups regulation is / was about. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

News report:

I would imagine the showing in groups is either suicide, self-harm or drugs prevention.

I think that "training" people to identify who is 'genuinely' transgender is a huge mistake.

All that it would take would be one mis-identification and the resulting storm would be epic. And, of course, the trainer wouldn't be liable but the shelter would.

It's obviously a non-starter, not to mention that there are transgender community leaders who have been committed of horrible crimes - if you get assaulted in a women's shelter it makes no difference to the victim whether that person was assaulted by a genuine transgender pervert or a fake transgender pervert.

That's true, too.

I would think that 'training' people to identify who is 'genuinely' transgender is an impossibility!

Ah. Thanks, @StringandGlitter. That seems a reasonable explanation to me.

TerfsUp, Well it’s just a guess, but these are very vulnerable women were talking about. Which why it’s so bloody outrageous that they are subjected to more bullying and harassment in what is supposed to be a safe space.

It's obviously a non-starter, not to mention that there are transgender community leaders who have been committed of horrible crimes - if you get assaulted in a women's shelter it makes no difference to the victim whether that person was assaulted by a genuine transgender pervert or a fake transgender pervert.

This.

Women - Complain about a male person in their space making them feel uncomfortable while they're naked

Male person - I would like to confirm that the situation works perfectly for me and I'm not uncomfortable at all!

Media - Well I guess that's OK then

I came here to post exactly about that but I see I've been beaten to it so I'll just add I had a protracted argument with Morgane Oger, an NDP candidate in BC and MtF trans, about this on Twitter yesterday. The subject was how his friend Kimberly Nixon (also a MtF trans) sued a women's shelter in Vancouver costing them $100,000 in legal fees because they wouldn't let him be a rape counsellor.

Morgane had this to say.

Morgane has asked all of them, then? There was a poll done?

Wow.That tweet by Morgane Oger is jaw-droppingly ignorant and insensitive on all levels.

The narcissism of TRAs is boundless.

Now, now AAK. We women shouldn't be asking questions like that - we should just submit to men and their feelings.

So what if one of the workers at the shelter thought they had identified a 'fake' trans person? What could they possibly do about this, when it is being made illegal and is social/political/employment suicide to ask questions or disbelieve someone about their self-identity?

What is the point of training someone to spot a fake when they have no way of doing or saying anything about it?