No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

[CaitlynsCat]

abc30.com/3514544/

'It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true.'

'
The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.
'

'Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.'

Oger was in full support of Kimberly Nixon, who after having received counselling from Vancouver Rape Refuge for a year, took them to court because they refused to have KN as a rape counsellor.

It cost VRR $100, 000 and 12 years of legal action.

He said that VRR should submit to his demand or fold into obscurity, like Michfest. Michfest was the woman only festival that had run for over 20 years. Transgender advocates forced it to shut down because it refused to admit male bodied people

I would attend that training, too.

Transgender advocates forced it to shut down because it refused to admit male bodied people

Saw this morning an autism group has been taken over and made into a trans autism group, where people who are not trans are being actually kicked out.

Taking over everything supportive and making it all about trans and forcing people out if they do not comply.

Saw this morning an autism group has been taken over and made into a trans autism group, where people who are not trans are being actually kicked out

Appalling. I am so glad the social group of autists I belong to hasn't had to deal with that nonsense.

It is. It really is.

Welcome to Elizabethan Theatre!
In an article and video, about a women's homeless shelter we have:

1. a male lawyer talking, representing the female plaintiffs
2. a Real Transwoman who used the service and is apparently 'friends' with some of the women in the lawsuit (and so not dodgy at all)
3. another Real Transwoman that knows the secret about how to tell Real Transwomen from, well, blokes in dresses

I am so comforted by the shower curtains though. That will surely solve everything!

if having an intact man in the shower naked with them was distressing for women and they complained and the complaints were recorded and taken seriously the shelter might have to make alternative arrangements.

No that isn't what I said (or meant). A pre op trans woman can be excluded quite legally from open showers. I said 'and this was distressing for the other women' because there may be situations where some women wouldn't necessarily want to exclude such a trans woman - (although personally I find that difficult to imagine). As in the examples given in the EA - it is on a case by case judgement. They don't have to exclude - only if they feel it would have a significant impact if they didn't.

Well put, LaSqrrl.

I am so comforted by the shower curtains though. That will surely solve everything!

Not everything, you exaggerate. It would help solve some of it for people who didn't want to shower in front of others - including others of the same sex. Lockable doors would be better though.

No that isn't what I said (or meant).

I know it's not what you said. I extrapolated both what I think you meant and the logical conclusion of transactivist policies like those of Swim England.

Lockable doors would be better though.
I normally ignore your comments, but accidentally read one.
How about excluding all people with penises? Radical concept for sure!
Your fake concern is, well fake.

where some women wouldn't necessarily want to exclude such a trans woman

And what if some women did and others didn't?

If shower curtains are not always permitted perhaps we can smuggle them in baked in a cake?

SupermatchGame you obviously aren't familiar with safeguarding - you can't put lockable doors in where there is a high risk of harm such as attack or suicide.

sarah
Prima facie it sounds like the transwoman is committing the offence of voyeurism. They should call the police.

What if their first illegal act was rape? Is that ok as they can call the police?

Btw I actually had a very interesting conversation with my MSP who thought that the acts of voyeurism & indecent exposure would be almost impossible to prosecute on in a mixed sex changing space....

Supermatch has repeatedly demonstrated that they don't have a clue or care about safeguarding.

Btw I actually had a very interesting conversation with my MSP who thought that the acts of voyeurism & indecent exposure would be almost impossible to prosecute on in a mixed sex changing space....

I agree with them. It's a push to make them obsolete.

I know a transwoman who got herself on the board of a local refuge. Why? This can only be a control/power thing. Same person was subsequently arrested for an alleged physical assault against a child in their family.

This person was always a 'victim' of everything.

I don't know how typical this is but the whole thing made me very uncomfortable.

My point is, I was wondering if the shelter would act differently if the perpetrator was biologically female, would there be extra supervision? Would she be banned from the shelter all together?

Impossible to say, really. However, it's California and TRAs are sufficiently organized and motivated to make life Hell for anyone who appears to discriminate. That alone might provide disincentive to act. They could very well be aware of the case of Vancouver Rape Relief (which I referred to in the tweets I posted) where they lost $100,000 just defending themselves against the lawsuit. And that wasn't even about providing service!

Even if he’d behaved impeccably there is no way most women would feel comfortable showering in front of a male stranger.

vo·yeur·ism
vwäˈərizəm/Submit
noun
the practice of gaining sexual pleasure from watching others when they are naked or engaged in sexual activity.

enjoyment from seeing the pain or distress of others.

Yup. Totally identifiable.

People who make claims about how refuges, homeless shelters and prisons will use the usual risk assesments etc, demonstrate very little awareness/experience of how safeguarding and risk assesments work.

YY. Didn't someone say Oger was claiming to be advising the UK government? Was that green ink letters to Theresa May, or genuinely acting in some kind of advisory capacity?

Ogre likes to affect an air of importance. He IS the VP of the local National Democratic Party in his area (which speaks terribly of them, by the way). But he's just a string of disasters. He left his wife and children, having stolen money from his wife which he has been ordered to pay back but hasn't. He is being sued by the local Indian tribe because he rented offices on their land and then didn't pay the rent. He's set up a "foundation" which many suspect is just a way to accept money without the courts immediately giving it to his ex-wife. I don't normally go into personal histories of people I disagree with but in Oger's case I'll make an exception. A blight on society.

This Ogler? This person quite clearly doesn't care less about women.

That's me in those tweets. The thread was pretty long and his statements were exploded over and over like an egg in a microwave. He blocked me later on so he could start making the same lies over again without being called on it.

I'd like to attend that training. I'm sure it would be very enlightening.....

it is on a case by case judgement. They don't have to exclude - only if they feel it would have a significant impact if they didn't.

"Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women"

Any ideas how an independant homeless charity is likely to be better able to assess risk on a 'case by case' basis than, for example those in the UK female prison estates? Prisons obviously have access to pre-sentence reports and on going risk assesments etc. They will also have the considerable more time available, something that emergency homeless services do not of course.