@MNHQ Another one in your midst (Title edited by MNHQ)

Original poster

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 30/04/2018 11:40

Basically, after much handwringing, this is the sum of it

"As a site on which, for all its avowed impartiality, political debates occur on a daily basis, I believe Mumsnet has failed to recognise a very basic principle: if your feminism doesn’t include trans women, it’s not feminism at all. "

And there you are: STFU TERF bitches.

Nice

OP posts:

AncientLights · 30/04/2018 11:46

I can't see how to comment on it. Infuriating piece. Why are some women so blind to the potential loss of women's rights, dignity & privacy if these amendments are passed? I remain of the opinion that most 'anti-trans' stuff is quickly deleted and this is our space to discuss what I see as a very worrying future for young women, in a world where such spaces are rapidly disappearing. This stuff makes me fucking furious. I may change my name to that now.

R0wantrees · 30/04/2018 11:46

as #ManFriday is referenced in the complaint/allegations above, worth reading this interview with Hannah Clark for a full explanation about its origin and motivation:

"HC: We are a group of women who oppose the push towards self-identification, both in law and in practice. We are concerned that self-identification removes gatekeeping to women’s identity, protected spaces, services, and roles. It also denies biology and women’s lived experiences of sex-based discrimination and violence."

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/09/interview-uk-women-self-identifying-men-challenge-proposed-changes-gra-part-manfriday/

ErrolTheDragon · 30/04/2018 11:50

Maybe MNHQ tends to agree with the most basic principle: 'if your feminism doesn't prioritise the needs of females it isn't feminism at all'.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 11:50

I'm starting to have some real questions about Mumsnet's recruiting policies. Also do they not have people who're leaving sign an NDA? I haven't had a job where I haven't had to do that in at least 15 years.

I appreciate Justine allowing these issues to be debated here, but from an HR perspective, yikes.

RefuseToDenounceBiology · 30/04/2018 11:52

We need to know that all of the employees /interns at MN who subscribe to this view are asked to leave asap. It is obvious that authoritarian traitors to women have infiltrated and seek to do damage to the community, to MN and to the right to freedom of speech.

@justinemumsnet they need to go now. Recruiting is always a pain in the arse hassle but in the long run it will be worth it.

SuitedandBooted · 30/04/2018 11:52

I wouldn't expect a balanced opinion piece from this writer - her colours are very firmly nailed to the Trans mast.

@MNHQ Another one in your midst (Title edited by MNHQ)

ALittleBitOfButter · 30/04/2018 11:52

I think it's a great article. It mentions autogynephilia. It will lead more people curious about the issues over here to be peak transed.

Thanks Hannah! Chin chin

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 11:55

The article basically says:

"Some people on mumsnet disagree with my point of view so mumsnet should stop them discussing it."

nauticant · 30/04/2018 11:58

This sentence:

Last week, Mumsnet referred itself to the data commissioner after a whistleblower exposed information relating to transphobic posters on the site.

is simply untrue. The "transphobia" revealed with publicly available. The "exposing information" was a flag to show that an insider had confidential information useful for doxxing and nothing to do with revealing transphobia. It's a case of yet another dishonest activist.

NotTerfNorCis · 30/04/2018 11:59

I see that the now-defunct trans/park run thread stands accused of 'scorning trans people in sport'. In other words - we can't even discuss men in women's sports.

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 30/04/2018 12:00

I don't see a problem.

Hannah has now left and can express her views freely.

She hasn't disclosed any confidential information.

The paperwork-and-procedure policies of big companies wouldn't work very well at mumsnet.

So long as Hannah moderated in accordance with the policy at the time, she's entitled to stew and have her own take on things.

"Traitor" is something much bigger and more powerful than moaning about an organisation you used to work for.

changeypants · 30/04/2018 12:01

Wow @MNHQ
You just took down a thread that was a microcosm of the issue as a whole. Way to silence women.

Xenia · 30/04/2018 12:01

Wander is right. In the first part of that first linked article - it suggests things cannot be debated. that is the core issue. It doesn't matter who is wrong or right - I want everything up for debate - that black is white, whether the Holocaust happened even which obviously it did, whether women or men are suprerior to each other - everything, all up for debate.

"Parenting site Mumsnet, founded as a place of support, has become abundant with threads about trans people’s rights - as if they are up for debate".

Yes sorry to break ot the writer but we have free speech in the UK and we can debate anything we like. Does a stone have a soul? Is it wrong to kill plants. When does life begin? What is man? Is the planet only 6000 years old. We can debate it all.

Also the article is just laughably wrong

"The first threads about trans people date from 2012, but looking at the board today, almost every conversation started is about trans people and trans rights". "Almost every"!

That is wrong and "fake news". I have been on lots of threads today and not a single one is anything to do with trans issues - I have been in higher education, then divorce, then legal issues.

Wisdens · 30/04/2018 12:02

We need to know that all of the employees /interns at MN who subscribe to this view are asked to leave asap. It is obvious that authoritarian traitors to women have infiltrated and seek to do damage to the community, to MN and to the right to freedom of speech

Erm, you can't quote freedom of speech whilst advocating that those who have a different view are removed from their jobs.

redshoeblueshoe · 30/04/2018 12:02

What made me laugh is she used an example about a mass shooting. Every time it has been mentioned on here the thread has been deleted.

ReanimatedSGB · 30/04/2018 12:02

Hang on a minute.
Whatever you think about the opinions expressed in that article, calling the writer a 'traitor' is a bit fucking Daily Mail-ish.
She previously worked at MN. left three years ago, did not steal any data or anything - and has every right to comment on threads she has seen - just like anyone else who reads MN. I am not sure it's at all a good idea to insist that MN staff toe the party line on absolutely everything - given that MNers have Views (which can be fairly polarized) on lots of issues, it isn't exactly practical in the first place.

The 'trans' debate remains the absolute worst I have ever seen for scaremongering, bullshit, malice and wilful ignorance at the far end of both sides.

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 12:03

Trans rights shouldn’t be up for debate

We are talking about women's rights. Proposed law changes (from Maria Miller's report) would remove sex-based rights and women are entitled to discuss this. Our sex-based rights are also being eroded by policies designed by lobbying organisations who have government funding.

It wouldn’t be acceptable to speak about any other marginalised group the way trans people are spoken about on Mumsnet boards. They can, and should, do better.
Really? Why does this museum have an exhibit normalising violence against women and lesbians?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/29/violent-misogyny-not-confined-to-internet-incels

Xenia · 30/04/2018 12:03

MN workers can have any views they like and I hope they can freely express them. I have no problems with that at all. In fact if we only had say right or left wing or only Brexit or remainer or young or old MN moderators it would end up a very unbalanced place. I want variety in the staff.

Once they leave they can usually write freely under employment law unless it involves disclosure of confidential information and I have no problems with that either.

LangCleg · 30/04/2018 12:04

Prioritising women is transphobic, women talking without male supervision is transphobic, safeguarding children is transphobic, women's rights are transphobic, biology is transphobic, Mumsnet is transphobic, sexual boundaries are transphobic, consent is transphobic...

... did I miss anything out?

Wouldn't it just be quicker to burn all the dictionaries and replace them with new ones in which the definitions of every single word read TRANSPHOBIC, YOU TRANSPHOBE?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 30/04/2018 12:04

Justine comes across as more reasonable and open minded than the author of that article.

RandomAccess · 30/04/2018 12:04

Erm, you can't quote freedom of speech whilst advocating that those who have a different view are removed from their jobs.

Exactly, it's not that hard to understand.

LoopOnTheRollercoaster · 30/04/2018 12:05

Under what grounds would those people be removed from their jobs exactly?

Branleuse · 30/04/2018 12:06

if your feminism does not centre on mens sexual rights, IS IT EVEN FEMINISM??

Thanksforthatamazingpost · 30/04/2018 12:07

fwiw I thought the title to the thread about parkrun was rather nasty.