@MNHQ Another one in your midst (Title edited by MNHQ)

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

www.huckmagazine.com/perspectives/opinion-perspectives/mumsnet-transphobia-online/

@angryattackkittens

Honestly, angry overgrown children throwing their toys out of the pram in public this way actually works in our favor in the long run. How well do you think this person comes across to the impartial observer? I mean, I've worked for some fucked up companies, but when you're describing your former workplace as if it's a cross between the Killing Fields and a Trump rally, and that workplace is a website catering to mothers, the average person may conclude that you're just a teensy bit unhinged. And wonder if that's the case for others who share your views.

Pretty much what I thought. Slagging off your former employer and so fervently, and in such a ranty manner, makes the woman look unhinged, bitter, and angry.

I wish one of these millennial TWAW types would stop and ponder why we are discussing it and offer an alternative view other than burn the —witch— transphobe. It’s pretty bloody boring and superficial.

It becomes white noise after a while, I think. And not just for feminists, who are the intended targets, but for the public at large who may have had sympathy. If you never know when to stop or the point at which you've moved into hyperbole, you end up with everyone sticking their fingers in their ears every time you show up.

I have asked MNHQ to amend the title to remove the word 'traitor'. Not because I regret it because I bloody don't. But because of your feedback and the fact I don't want the whole thread to be deleted.

V angry.

I think that's a good idea AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth.

It’s a pretty poorly researched piece isn’t it?

Indeed.

Huck Magazine? More like Hack Magazine...amirite?

Remember the SNL sketch with the Woke Jeans? People are getting tired of the endless shrieking. When "omg literal violence!" is your response to everything from a stray pronoun to the hats that women wear to a protest it starts to grate on people's nerves after a while.

1. This person is not a traitor to MNHQ. They no longer work there.
2. They are entitled to their own opinion.
3. Other people are entitled to theirs.
4. She has no interest in reassuring women. She just wants to 'educate' them

Circular argument going on here.

These LGBT groups do not want to engage anyway. Just shut MN up.

Anyway, think its best left at that. Nothing further to say that would either be productive, wouldn't be seen as proving her point. (Even if its not).

My feminism isn't about the menz.

Whoops, terf and feather me instantly. 🦆

I want MNHQ to uphold free speech. There does seem to be a small pattern that a site that depends on free speech for its livelihood is recruiting staff that struggle with the basic tenets of Voltaire/Hall. But, it's difficult to weed out at interview how committed to free speech someone actually is.
Perhaps we should start marking articles out of ten on accuracy; commitment to free speech; understanding of abuse/phobias. . .

Interview question 1 - Was Farenheit 51 a dystopian tale or an example of what we should aspire to as a workplace?

(451)

Why are you so angry OP?

It's a very poor article that misrepresents mumsnet and it's posters. But she is no longer employed by mumsnet and as long as she isn't giving confidential information it is her right to share her opinion - although she and the people who publish her should be much more careful about fact checking and fairly representing the people and organisations mentioned.

The main issue (as I see it) with this ex-employee writing this following so soon after the other is that it begins to give the impression of a consensus between mumsnet mods, by virtue of them being multiple (well, two) trans advocates accusing the site and members of being transphobic. They know as do we all that Mumsnet mods (past or present) who have a more moderate or opposite opinion do not have the same opportunity to publicly state their views without threats to themselves, their friends, family, employers, etc. It can look like consensus because they are are giving the only currently safe perspective.

That is a problem but as more women speak out it will get easier and easier.

Slagging off your employer to get the good girl brownie points from the men.

That's brave stuff right there

Wouldn't it just be quicker to burn all the dictionaries and replace them with new ones in which the definitions of every single word read TRANSPHOBIC, YOU TRANSPHOBE?

The very fact that Hannah and Emma were employed by Mumsnet, despite MN knowing they were transactivists, negates their attack on MNHQ.

Mumsnet is for reasoned, respectful discussion from all parties. Why do these women find that so hard to understand?

Erm, you can't quote freedom of speech whilst advocating that those who have a different view are removed from their jobs.

The view that freedom of speech should be curtailed on mumnet. Duh

From the article
if your feminism doesn't include transwomen it's not feminism at all

Feminism is for men. Right oh.

And FWIW I think MNHQ are doing a good job in difficult circumstances and demanding that they have a cull of their staff is distinctly unhelpful.

I wonder if her problem is with echo chambers per se

I highly doubt it. As you say, I'll bet she's ok with TRA ones.

as more women speak out it will get easier and easier.

this was the response of many women when MN publicaly stated their commitment to free speech despite attempts by transgender activists to close this down:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mumsnet-founder-justine-roberts-transgender-activists-try-to-curb-free-speech-on-site-z3sr3nf6q?shareToken=ade388be59ac427155003eff83c5158c

Remember the SNL sketch with the Woke Jeans? People are getting tired of the endless shrieking. When "omg literal violence!" is your response to everything from a stray pronoun to the hats that women wear to a protest it starts to grate on people's nerves after a while.

YY. She's too wokely dimwitted to realise this.

I'm starting to have some real questions about Mumsnet's recruiting policies. Also do they not have people who're leaving sign an NDA? I haven't had a job where I haven't had to do that in at least 15 years.

What confidential info has she disclosed?

This whole "feminism isn't feminism if it includes transwomen" just screams "what about the menz" to me.

My feminism doesn't directly include transwomen, because I think transwomen have different issues to women in most walks of lives, and sometimes their needs directly compete with women.

I do believe transpeople have the right to largely live their lives as they chose and, for example, they should not face violence or discrimination for presenting in a gender non-conforming way. I do not think they have an automatic right to women only spaces. I do not think they should be grouped in with women on statistics/surveys (I think this is actually harmful to both women and transpeople). I do not think transwomen should ever be allowed to participate in women's sport. Females and transwomen face different health issues and may face different issues in the workplace.

I think pretending there is no difference is actually harmful in some cases. For example, with statistics, if you always just include transwomen in the category female, it may harm women (because transwomen may be more likely to commit violent crime, or may have different career trajectories, as they won't usually take time out for childbearing in the way some women do), but it may also harm transpeople. If transwomen are more likely to be victims of crime, or likely to be fired due to coming out at work, or find it harder to get a new job it will be impossible to assess this if they aren't considered a discrete group by the people collecting statistics.

Applying critical thinking to these issues is important and should not be censored.

I wonder if MN should consider suing for libel? I mean, being accused of being transphobic is pretty serious stuff isn't it...?

So embarrassed for these little twits. All this 'no debate' shite seems to have resulted in them not being able to think.