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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS
========

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START
==========

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators
=====================

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips
=======

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice.
e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.

  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.


  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.


  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)


Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health
===========================

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper
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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:16

🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴

Grin Welcome to 5:2 thread # 83 ! Grin
We’re a very friendly bunch, so pop in and join us
Post whenever you need advice or support, or just to tell us how you are doing

FAQs & tips in the OP

"HOW TO START" section has

  • Tips & FAQs
  • FD recipes, meal plans
  • Body Goal Visualisers
  • Calculators for TDEE, Body Fat, Frame Size, Ideal Weight Range, Daily Alcohol Units / Cals

    "Scientific Evidence for Health & Fasting" is at the end of the OP and includes links to peer-reviewed science papers

    🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴 🚴
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OohMrDarcy · 21/01/2019 16:49

Checking in on our shiny new thread - thanks once again BigChoc

My eating for the day is done at 550..... nice 5 hr eating window too, so back on the water now until bedtime... the DC are at their dads tonight so I might have a long bath with my kindle and an early night!

Cheddar - if it makes you feel any better, I start with a 17 - though fingers crossed for not much longer!!

Cheese - glad to hear the NHS is finally catching up with that research, I know a number of people who were given opposite advice upon diagnosis!

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Cheeeeislifenow · 21/01/2019 17:41

Yay new thread..thanks @BigChocFrenzy
Sounds like you had a good day @OohMrDarcy

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alem · 21/01/2019 17:48

What perfect timing! A new thread for a new attempt.
I'm just starting 5:2 again!
I did fairly well at the beginning of last year, lost around 2 stone. Unfortunately after the summer, I couldn't get back into it, so have put most of it back on.
So starting again.
I managed 2 fast days last week.
2lb down.

Let's do this!

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Iamblossom · 21/01/2019 17:48

Gosh bcf thanks!! Well chuffed. 😁😁😁

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Iamblossom · 21/01/2019 17:49

Fist bump alem

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JcHcks · 21/01/2019 18:17

Thanks for the new thread. I'm closing the kitchen on 511 woop! Just a few more hours till bed 😁

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Iamblossom · 21/01/2019 18:40

Finished on 538.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
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snailhunter · 21/01/2019 18:47

All done for me to at around 550 - omelette, mushrooms, spinach, feta, cucumber, Greek yogurt, blueberries. Blimey, that sounds like a lot. Now all I have to do is get through the OH MY GOD I AM SO COLD feeling this evening. Hot water bottle and ginger tea for me.

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Pumperthepumper · 21/01/2019 19:09

All done here, having a peppermint tea right now 👍

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MazDazzle · 21/01/2019 19:15

Same here snail! I’m in the bath now, trying to defrost. I haven’t felt this cold on a FD in ages.

Well done Darcy!

Good luck aleh. You can do this!

Had a tough PT session this morning, water and coffee throughout the day, then salad for dinner. Successful FD all round. Looking forward to going to bed with my book.

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HLBug · 21/01/2019 19:50

FD all done - closing on 670 as expected. B2B planned for tomorrow.

Thanks for the new thread BCF Brew

Also...I saw this on Twitter and it made me chuckle. I'll never think of cereal in the same way again!!

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss &  better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you
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Cheeeeislifenow · 21/01/2019 19:53

Well done all of you lovely FD'ers!

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alltalknobaby · 21/01/2019 20:12

Checking in! Thanks for the new thread bcf and the health benefits stuff. Really interesting.

Mini today, kitchen closed on 897 and teeth brushed.

Well done to all the Monday fasters!

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Borris · 21/01/2019 20:27

I’m getting back on the saddle and not letting stbxh sabotage my revenge body!!

Good FD1 today. B2b tomorrow. Totm due so already mentally preparing for no loss on Wednesday weigh in.

MrD - my dd is at her dads tonight too. I might join you in the bath (not literally!!)

Blossom - they looks lovely. Is it a recipe or just made up?

Snail - I’m cold too. Hence the bath sounding appealing

Well done all the fasters. Seems like there are lots today.

Bug - I’ll see you tomorrow for b2b d2

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 20:36

Welcome back, alem
and well done on your SV
Good start

Well done on your FD, MrD, blossom, snail, pumper, bug, Maz, alltalk and any other Monday faster

< 🛰 wafts warmer air towards Maz >
Hot herbal tea or Bovril is excellent on days like this

Like most weekdays, I cycled 30 km total to 2 different places to / fro
0 deg C and coooold legs with the wind blowing up my trousers !
1 hr Strength & Flexibility gym class

My FD finished too
My meals were both big ready soups to warm me up - 1 Mexican beef, 1 blue cheese & broccoli - with masses of veg stirred into them and low carb pita bread
< lazy woman's healthy soups >

MrD The NHS changed its position re T2 diet, mainly because of Prof Taylor (Newcastle Uni hospital, winner of Diabetes UK Banting award) on whose work the BSD is based.
The NHS are starting a large study of about 20,000 people to test Taylor's pure form of the BSD (shakes & veg)

They also changed position re 5:2, which they no longer class as a "Fad" diet, probably because so many doctors reported success on fasting diets, for themselves and their patients.

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 20:39

Well done, Borris
That's right, don't let stbx reduce your focus
This is your journey towards the new Borris

btw, I'd give Wednesday's weigh in a miss, if totm is expected then
The number will be meaningless, because you don't know how many lb of temporarily retained water would be included

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PopGoesTheWeaz · 21/01/2019 20:47

checking in to the new thread (thank you BCF!)

D1 of my B2b and about to tuck in to a mexican salad type thing. Have had a cock-up of a weekend, TDEE wise. It was that TOTM and I just couldn't be arsed to care. And I even had a wobble about whether or not I should fast this week. Pish tosh, put it behind me and fasting as planned. I'll not let a couple of blue days derail me!

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flatpackbox · 21/01/2019 20:58

Thanks for the welcome. Successful first day, yoghurt plus blueberries, Sainsbury’s Chicken and four grain salad, hummus and carrots and a few grapes for dinner.

I am drinking rooibis tea, it makes me feel slightly nauseous so that will stop me reaching for more food tonight!

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OohMrDarcy · 21/01/2019 21:30

HLBug that tweet is brilliant!

Borris see you in the bath later 😉

Well done to all you fab fasters!

I'm off for my soak, night

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 21:30

Well done on an excellent 1st FD, flatpack

For future FDs, you can also try herbal teas - unsweetened & without milk -
e.g. hibiscus / lemon & ginger, fennel & aniseed
Best for settling the tum is probably peppermint tea^

tip -To avoid the temptation of late night nibbles:
drink a glass of water, then clean your teeth & use mouthwash - the fresh feel & minty taste really discourages further eating

Well done for getting stuck into fasting, pop

We all have bad days / weekends / weeks, but one of the advantages of 5:2 is that it doesn't matter in the long run
What is important is to stop as soon as you can, then move on and right back into the fasting swing - and you've already taken that step

So, forget the wobble, nail this FD ...
and you're back !

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Ta1kinPeace · 21/01/2019 21:33

New thread
new motivation
Had a good day today
will keep it together

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 21:38

bug 😂
Kelloggs created breakast cereal to make money, of course !

They and other cereal & junk manufacturers carefully select and sponsor studies designed to show we need breakfast.

In reality, some do best with breakfast, some without and most FDs are better without breakfast.

On NFDs, if you feel hungry, avoid the sugary highs of cereal, pastries, fruit juice, toast, sweet muffins ...
Instead,
have porridge with flaked almonds, berries & cinammon
or
go savoury:
eggs & tomato, veg omelette, open bacon & mushroom wholegrain sarny, natural pnut butter on wholegrain toast ....

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 21:38

Sounds good, TiP

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Ta1kinPeace · 21/01/2019 21:40

Bigchoc
Kellogg was absolutely obsessed about masturbation. MM is quite correct in his quote

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