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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2019 23:51

Well done on your FD, cheee

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 22/01/2019 23:55

hlbug
Jeez that sounds awful. I hope you're feeling better tomorrow...

Harriet

Enjoy your new home, how lovely! I kind of like unpacking, though I know I am in the minority!
Thanks BCF..I am in the zone!

littlemoon86 · 23/01/2019 02:12

Thanks everyone for making me feel much better! FD finished today at 532. Had blueberries, an orange and then a small ready meal. Herbal teas throughout the day. Next FD is Thursday. Good luck everyone fasting tomorrow Smile

scruffybarnsley · 23/01/2019 07:08

Harriet - congrats on the move!

Borris - thank you for your absolution Halo I think the SF jelly and hot choc was a good idea as the alternatives could have been way more

Bug - that sounds scary. Postponing the fast was a sensible decision

Maz - I’m really making a concerted effort with alcohol as it has become far too habitual to drink every night. I’ve found some great alcohol free and low alcohol alternatives which I’m saving for the weekends to try and keep those much lower intake too. And having Mon-Thursday off anything like alcohol and just drinking squash. I don’t feel much better for it (partly cos I’m up all night needing the loo because I’m drinking more hydrating things!!) but my weekly calorie deficit is much better as I was basically drinking back any calories I’d lost in the week!

Cheee - 440 is great for a FD. Well done you

Bigchoc - you’re right. I don’t know what came over me (actually I do....thousands of noodles!!!). I’ll be much better behaved today. B2B commences!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 23/01/2019 07:10

Oh dear bug hope you are feeling better today Flowers

Well done little I'll see you on the Thurs fast train Smile good luck all the weds fasters

mickeymacca · 23/01/2019 07:56

Well done all the fasters yesterday 👏👏 my FD went a bit wrong at dinner time. I’m pretty sure I ended on about 900 so I’m fasting again today as my week is getting busier and more social towards the weekend. Aiming for nothing until an early dinner later. I know I’m not drinking enough water. Quite a few herbal teas but I feel quite puffy lately. I don’t think wine is agreeing with me the older I get... I had 2 glasses Saturday night and have felt puffy since then hmmm

quackingduck222 · 23/01/2019 09:05

Thanks BCF for the new shiny thread.

MrDarcy- Well done on your FD, a 5 hour fast window is fantastic.

Alem - Welcome back, Well done on your SV from last week.

JCHcks - Well done on your FD.

Snail - Also Well done on your FD, I’ve also taken to hot water bottle on FD as it’s just so cold. Bone chilling cold.

Well done Maz, that’s fantastic.

Well done on your FD Bug. Sorry to hear you blacked out that’s awful.

Well done on your B2B aswell Borris, that’s the spirt don’t let anyone bring you down as your doing so well.

BCF - That’s good news about the NHS no longer classing 5:2 as a fad diet. Our surgery are very pro 5:2. But maybe they have had to have a U turn as they were classing Shake diets as a fad and now they seem to be promoting them after all the press and research done lately.

Well done to yesterday’s fasters pop, flatpack, cheese, 43, cheddar, scruffy, little moon, Slinky, groovie, Harriet

Lamb - Well done on 2lbs off that’s great.

Welcome Peach, Congratulations on loosing 7lbs that’s incredible. Good luck for your first week fasting.

Scruffy - I hate it when people trot out the line “breakfast is the most important meal of the day” I also get judged too, I think it’s the word ‘fast’ in people’s heads they hear starve. I now use 5:2 or intermittent fasting it doesn’t seem to get people as bent out of shape IMO.

Welcome back boys. Do you use MFP? May be worth tracking a week to see how you go? Or you could just be having a slight stall, it’s quite common. I see it as your body catching up with you but then it will let you carry on loosing. It’s tough but you’ve done amazingly well, remember how far you’ve come.

Good luck for your FD to Mickey and everyone else who’s fasting.

10 days for me without any junk food, absolutely no cravings or naughty thoughts what so ever it’s fabulous.

OohMrDarcy · 23/01/2019 09:09

Morning all

On board for a healthy NFD here, fasting tomorrow so will be doubly sure to drink plenty of water, no snacks and no junk!

HLbug - the blackout does sound scary, definitely sensible to postpone the FD! My blood pressure doesn't quite count as low, but always on the lower end of normal (enough that it is checked every time I go to the docs), drinking plenty of water is something that has helped me - I used to feel light headed when giving blood from it and that has stopped that completely. Hope you are feeling better now.

Scruffy - all is forgiven, accept and move on!

Well done to all the Tuesday fasters, and sending good vibes to the Wednesday ones.

I'll be fasting tomorrow

harriethoyle · 23/01/2019 09:30

Thanks @scruffy @cheeeee you're welcome to pop over and get cracking!! Grin box situation not helped by the fact I've moved into a doer upper so not even half the kitchen and wardrobe space I had at my last house... howl!!

B2B today - finished yesterday on 630 and looks like I'll come in at c.700 today which I'll be happy with.

@HLBug hope you're feeling better today x

Good luck, Wednesday fasters!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 23/01/2019 09:36

Little spring in my step as scales say down 0.4kg from last week. I know it's not a lot but it's the right direction and as I think I mentioned I scoffed ALL THE FOOD this weekend. All of it. Feeling really energised after my B2B and lovely brisk walk this morning.

Have a night out with friends this weekend so will perhaps try to fit a mini in before Saturday.

Good luck to all the fasters today!

MazDazzle · 23/01/2019 09:50

Your lamb koftas sound delicious Cheeeeeeislifenow.

Well done o no junk quacking! That’s fantastic.

Congratulations on the house move Harriet.

Boysmomma · 23/01/2019 09:53

Morning all,

Day 1 of B2B yesterday, kitchen closed at 628, planning the same for today including a lovely weigh in and PT, I'm not in the least bit excited but I've my mantra and a dress that is yet to be worn. I will see my feet again!

@moon a small blip, it will balance out keep going! That's a great FD!

@Groovie that now would have resulted in a weighing scales shaped hole in the wall Grin Hope your FD went better than the morning!!

Hi @43 I'm in a zone, not sure if it's the right one yet! No snow here but it's fucking freezing!

@flatpack that's a great way to go, and more visual (I think)

Congrats on the house move @harriet that must be so exciting

Oh @lamb I hope doggo is feeling better, and sorry

@Tip I genuinely LOL'd at that!

@Scruffy lesser of all the evils you were shown, the lads in my office bring in jellies and chocolate from the corner shop every few days. I take a few from the bowl smile and chuck them in the bin when they're not looking. Doesn't help they're all tiny.

Well done @Borris, @Maz, @slinky, @macca

@Bug that sounds very scary I hope you're ok!

@Cheese now all I want is soup and lamb, mmmmm

Thanks @quacking I am, I just think I was overly confident and stopped being so careful in my measurements. I looked at pictures of myself from this time last year, ouch, just ouch! That's amazing on your sugar detox! I need to get back to that, any tips on beating the first few days?

Good luck @Darcy!

@Big you're just a wealth of knowledge! Thank you!

Well doen Tuesday fasters! And good luck Wednesday fasters!

Cheeeeislifenow · 23/01/2019 10:17

Morning guys, hope all fasters are doing well today.
Harriet
I would help if I could!
Just back after a little jog I am back doing c to 5k again and I did a little bit if yoga as well.
This is normally where I would snack it is a NFD but I am trying to avoid snacking. So water bottle in hand and maybe a cup of tea!
The koftas we're really easy. All you do is really mix the mince with your hands, really nice and shape into koftas, I then roll them in sesame seeds, no oil, no fat no egg. Great for your protein in a meal.

HLBug · 23/01/2019 10:30

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. I always remember the midwife telling me if you end up in hospital with low blood pressure the first thing they do is hang a bag of fluid. So - water is definitely my friend. Very rare that I have funny turns nowadays - I think lack of salt is also sometimes a trigger. I'm normally absolutely fine with no breakfast / 16:8 etc but I'll keep your top tips in mind BCF - thank you for taking the time to post them. Alcohol intake is normally very low so that one is not so much of a problem for me.

slinkyme · 23/01/2019 10:50

I'm another one with low BP and have just got used to it but sometimes gets worse. Yes water is my friend for this and I know I don't drink enough. But a good reminder to do so. Scales showed a 1kg drop this am but I know that isn't completely really as after a FD after several months plus will always show low day after. I am a daily weigher so that I can see the fluctuations.

slinkyme · 23/01/2019 10:50

Do take care Bug

Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 10:56

Can I raise hand and join the low BP gang? And my resting heart rate is 46. I attribute the whiteys I have had on my 100km walks to it, and also the whiteys I have if I don't eat protein.

I never knew the water thing, very interesting, I do drink shit tonnes though...

Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 10:56

and yes bug look after yourself and get that DH helping rather than frowning at you.

Pumperthepumper · 23/01/2019 13:27

Fasting today, really enjoying coffee with oat milk so thanks for that tip (can’t remember who it was but it was someone on here!)

Hope you feel better soon bug

scruffybarnsley · 23/01/2019 13:35

I'd love to help unpack Harriet but not sure you'd appreciate my scattergun approach and need for a 15min break every 5mins!!!!

Cheee I'm also back to couch25k properly this year. I completed it around this time last year and since then have been definitely more couch than 5king, although I've kept it up sporadically. Back to every few days now though which feels better. Off for a jog in a bit actually - it's a beautiful day here albeit freezing!

Forgot my water bottle this morning Angry but just got home and had lots of water. Nothing until dinner for me today. Keep it up Weds fasters!!

Ta1kinPeace · 23/01/2019 14:04

@HLBug
As somebody who ended up needing facial surgery after a low blood pressure episode
I have never, and will never, do a back to back fast.
Think long term. Its about sustainability and maintenance.

If I start to feel woozy I must admit that a big glass of semi skimmed milk is my friend.
Sod the calories, its about getting my vision and balance back stable.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2019 14:51

Welll done on cutting back on alcohol, scruffy
That's an important longterm change for weight & health

Great progress too on the c25k

Well done on your SV, pop

Yup, boost water, slinky and everyone else, but especially those with low BP

Blossom include Marmite regularly too, to help your low BP

That was a miniFD yesterday, mickey
So you only need an extra miniFD to stay on track for the week, rather than a full FD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2019 14:54

ouch, TiP
Yes, do whatever it takes to recover from your low BP episodes.
Water and Marmite could help you too

OP posts:
snailhunter · 23/01/2019 15:03

Sympathies, bug, look after yourself. I've never done a B2B either, TiP. Not because of blood pressure but because I like breakfast after an FD too much!

Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 16:24

Tip ouch - yes sod the cals indeed - I inhale full fat yog when I get the shakes.

I went to the gym once morning recently, came home and had some cereal, then walked the dogs. Got about a mile in and was suddenly very shaky, drenched in sweat, could feel I was white as a sheet, and ended up sitting on the floor of the local shop scoffing two protein bars. Horrible feeling.

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