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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
slinkyme · 22/01/2019 11:43

Oops completely missed the new thread and posted in the old one. FD here today and fairly busy and stressful. Want to eat as a way of dealing with the stress but not going to. Just going to think of something else. Will plan an early dinner at 6 so that I can make it. More tea and coffee soon I think.

GroovieGazelloo · 22/01/2019 12:16

Hello All,
Thanks for the new thread Choc. ( Didn't know you lived ut of the UK too. Smile- glad you're enjoying the sunny Rhine right now. )

I've had a very busy few days with my work and have enjoyed reading all your news but couldn't free up time to write to you all.

Anyway, 2nd day of B2B here. So far, so good.

"The weighing scales are my friends" says Boys. Well , not so much mine at the moment. I hopped on to them yesterday to find I'd lost 10 kgs ... !! I nearly jumped out of my skin. ( Glad I didn't because I don't know what the scales would have said then ! )

Anyhow, sadly they are broken too much hopping on and off methinks
So, I 'm finger-crossing that my hard work is going to lead to some good scale results and waiting for a the surprise when I get my next ones.

Wishing you all a great day and looking forward to catching up and hearing your news tonight. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2019 12:30

26 kg is brilliant, boys
but on a long journey, you'll have a few pauses while your body rebalances before getting ready to lose more

Groovie Its bitterly cold today, no sign of sun - very thick frost and I'm surprised it's not snowing.
My bicycle commute was very chilly today
< shivers >
Currently about to enjoy hot soup and hot Apwelwein, Handkäse etc

Littlemoon Don't worry, 3 social events in a week is probably not your usual routine ?
Get back into fasting, with "normal" - maintenance - eating on NFDs and you'll soon be back in the swing-

Good to see you found us, slinky
If you're stressed, try to keep busy rather than eat.

For future reference, if you think you might feel desperate for something, prep as emergency backup some raw carrot / celery / cucumber etc - no dips or sauce - and drink lots of water
Raw veg on its own has v few calories, so that shouldn't spike insulin or send you off track

OP posts:
Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/01/2019 13:03

welcome back boys you sound like you are in the zone....

little don't dwell on it, just focus on your fds this week and nailing your nfds - good luck!

Gah groovie hope your scales are kind to you when you next step on :)

Lunch eaten here, got an afternoon of meetings to look forward to, hopefully no biscuits / cakes to tempt me just keep thinking of poo crumbs soup i reckon for dinner as it is bloody freezing and snowing here!! grrrrrrrrr to the snow

flatpackbox · 22/01/2019 13:07

Not necessarily a fast day for me but I am in a good frame of mind. Porridge and blueberries for breakfast and a lovely soup for [[https://www.gloriousfoods.co.uk/fresh-soups/sweet-potato-thai-massaman/ lunch.

I am not going to focus on weighing myself as my menopausal body seems to be able to fluctuate massively, I will use the fit of my clothes and try to weigh no more than fortnightly.

harriethoyle · 22/01/2019 13:38

I'm here!! Moved house yesterday and it's chaos. The only advantage is I can't find my scales 🤣 fasting today to try and limit the damage. Just had 220 cal sandwich and have some ready meals in the freezer for tonight. Am contemplating a b2b tomorrow but we'll see...

Cheeeeislifenow · 22/01/2019 13:44

Hey guys I'm just checking in quickly I'll catch up later.. plenty water, two coffees and a bowl if soup.
I struggled this morning but kept busy, I tidied my room and the kids rooms and I gave P/t meetings this afternoon so I'll be busy!

Iamblossom · 22/01/2019 14:08

was soooo hungry this morning after FD yesterday and getting woken up by a puking dog at 4.20am. Hmm Couldn't get back to sleep so instead of going to the gym or swimming as I would usually before working at home, I went back to bed! Couldn't sleep though as it was a waster of time, but have just had a lovely hour's brisk walk with the dogs.

So far tdaoy (NFD) have had:

bowl of sultana bran with skimmed milk
apple and banana
slice of toast with tomato and egg, some crackers
0% greek yog with berries and seeds

Will try not to snack, may have a mini meal around 4 as I find I need this, then chicken stir fry for tea.

Ta1kinPeace · 22/01/2019 14:59

Well, that's me busted Grin
I went to the nurse today for some bits and bobs and a blood test.
Milk in tea does not count as fasting she lectured me
so I have to go back another day

not that it will change my normal habits

PopGoesTheWeaz · 22/01/2019 17:37

blossom what do you have for your mini meal? I need something to get me from 5:30 to 8 as I want to break my habit of food prep snacking

flatpackbox · 22/01/2019 17:53

I like the sound of miso soup with a sliced mushroom and spinach (maybe plus cooked finely sliced chicken) in it for a quick snack.

I love miso soup anyway but miso with something added will be great, I must buy some to keep at work.

Iamblossom · 22/01/2019 18:07

Ha ha pop unfortunately today it was a bowl of cereal!! Grin. But usually it would be a yoghurt or an egg or protein to fill me up. But i’d Already had both of those today...

slinkyme · 22/01/2019 18:50

FD done. Just had tea and coffee through the day and just had dinner - small
Portion of homemade penne with vegetables and salad. I don't normally eat carbs on a FD but this is he first one so easing in gently. Probs over my 500 calories but am not going to worry about it. Just herbal tea now till bedtime and an early night.

Next FD Thursday and will be a bit more strict.

Love miso soup and like the thought of adding stuff to it.

harriethoyle · 22/01/2019 19:14

Excellent fasts, Tuesday team!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2019 19:23

well done, slinky
Not long to go, for the other Tuesday fasters

TiP 😂 The medical definition of fasting for tests etc is indeed zero cals
Remember, we do "buffered" fasting on 5:2, so we can spread out our cals as we want

Enjoy your new home, harrie 🙂
I won't say enjoy the unpacking .... but it can make you appreciate old favourites when you unearth them again.

OP posts:
scruffybarnsley · 22/01/2019 20:44

Forgive me fasters for I have sinned...

Managed to resist 4 different cakes being offered round at 4 different times for lots of office birthdays AND free pizza at lunch ('just because') so obviously used up every ounce of willpower I possess and came home and scoffed almost a portion of leftover chicken chow mein!! Annoyed with myself but with dinner (which I still had, obvs...!) I have come in under TDEE so just going to have to try again tomorrow & Thursday for a B2B. Best laid plans and all.

No alcohol though which helps, as also trying not to drink alcohol in the week. Lots of water too.

Thank you for the bday wishes! Thanks

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 22/01/2019 20:52

Ooh how lovely harriet hope the unpacking goes smoothly....

Well done all the Tues fasters, kitchen closed here on 550, just had a bath to warm me up and off for an early night soon. Nfd tomorrow then fd on Thurs. At a gig on Fri so probably a few cheeky beers will sneak in :-)

Not long to go now everyone....

Iamblossom · 22/01/2019 20:54

[adds miso soup to shopping list]

Had forgotten about that, used it a lot when I first started 5:2 on fds

harriethoyle · 22/01/2019 21:08

Thanks @bigchoc and @fortythree... I'm running around like a blue arsed fly this week with work and away this weekend but then the next two weekends are domestic ones so I'll sort the gazillion boxes then Blush

Borris · 22/01/2019 21:18

Harriet - fast day after a house move is hardcore!! Respect!

Iam - hope the doggy feels better soon. I don’t envy your 4.30 wake up call

Scruffy - forgivenSmile. It would have been worse if you’d had cake AND chowmein. So hopefully no lasting damage

Well done other fasters. I’ve finisged b2b day 2. Felt really hungry so have had an options hot choc and sugar free jelly. Not ideal but didn’t think I’d sleep with nothing.

Got a good nfd planned for tomorrow

HLBug · 22/01/2019 21:51

So Day 2 of my B2B did not happen today as I ended up blacking out this morning whilst getting the kids ready for nursery. Not done that in a looooong time. DH cross and blamed yesterday's FD (Hmm). Had a big glass of water and felt much more steady after an hour or so but decided to postpone my FD today all the same. I have low blood pressure which is generally the cause - any top tips appreciated! Unfortunately taking it slow with a 1 and 4 year old in the morning is not an option.

Might try for a Mini instead tomorrow as I'll be travelling for some of the day. Thursday also a possibility...

MazDazzle · 22/01/2019 23:02

Oh no Bug. Glad to hear you’re okay now and fwiw I think you did the right thing postponing your FD.

Hang in there littlemoon. It’s tough going when there’s lots on.

I’m also trying to cut back on alcohol scruffy. I find that ‘just the one’ often leads to two, which always leads to snacks! Since the kids have gone back to school, I’ve managed to limit drinking to one or two nights a week.

Had a productive day today and managed to follow the golden rules for my NFDs: I didn’t eat before 12pm, I didn’t snack and I filled up with nutritious food. Grin

Managed to get a bit of meal prep done. Made a delicious bacon and lentil stew which I’ve boxed up in 250 cal portions.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2019 23:45

scruffy That was fine as an NFD, so just move on and plan your FD in advance for tomorrow

The main thing when learning to fast, is to plan the content of every meal and stick to it, no impulse changes whatsoever
then as soon as you've had your final meal, drink a glass of water & clean your teeth.

Well done, 43, Borris

You're back in your fasting system, Maz
The next step is to really work on keeping to NHS alcohol limits:
as well as your liver thanking you, you're right about booze encouraging mindless nibbling

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 22/01/2019 23:49

Well done fellow FD'ers..I must admit I found today hard..but I think my period is on its way, so that's okay once I know what it is.I ended up on 440 Cal's.
B:lemon water
L: homemade potato and carrot soup
D: homemade lamb koftas with sweet chilli dipping sauce, cauliflower, green beans and sweet corn. Yum!

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2019 23:50

Sorry to hear that, bug but it's good you mentioned about the effects of your BP

How to avoid faints with low BP

You probably know some of these, BUT I also recommend changes to your fasting WOL.

  • Keep drinking plenty of still water all day - start each day with a full glass and keep drinking
    Fizzy flavoured drinks may not work as well, but hot drinks are fine.

  • Cut out alcohol, or cut it right back to below NHS limits

  • Increase salt intake. Specifically:
    On FDs, have a teasp Marmite (glug like medicine) mid-morning and mid-afternoon. Have hot Bovril too, say as a "soup" starter before your FD meals
    The NFD after an FD, first thing drink water and glug a teasp Marmite

  • Low BP is the exception - always have breakfast, even a few nuts if you are rushed
    Do NOT do 16:8 or 14:10.

  • Also the exception - Have smaller, more frequent meals , e.g. 4 meals on NFDs, 3 meals on FDs (go to 800 cals)

  • Take regular exercise. Even a daily brisk 20 minute walk.

  • Stand up or sit up slowly, never abruptly - get your DH to deal with the DC first thing, because your bod takes a while to get going after you wake up.
    Pump your feet and ankles a few times before you stand up.

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