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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 16:25

I have just had a 90 minute detox body and head massage.

I'll just leave that there Wink

JcHcks · 23/01/2019 16:36

Oohh lamb that sounds nice. What is a detox body? I want one lol

Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 16:39

it was a body and head massage of the detox variety. Body brush all over, then massage with oils. Heaven. She did shiatsu techniques on my poorly back.

JcHcks · 23/01/2019 17:46

Ooh that does sound nice. When I get down to a certain weight I might do something similar as a well deserved treat ☺️

GroovieGazelloo · 23/01/2019 18:13

Hlbug Hope you’re feeling better now. Do take care of yourselves with the low blood pressure, Bug, Slinky and Lamb
Hope that you’re new home is coming together Harriet.
Well done on being in the “zone” now and getting going with the running too Cheeeeislifenow ! Great that you’re up and running too Scruff !

Great FD on Tuesday littlemoon86 and good luck for Thursday !

Hope your B2B went ok Scruff , Boys. Well done to Pop, Pumper and hope everybody who was on their FD today did ok too.

Great on your no junk food too quacking

Sounds really cold where you are so hope you’ve got your winter woolies on Big Choc. Thankyou once again for all your help. I love reading your informative posts. Smile

Good to read you again too TIP. I remember you from when I was here several years ago. I’ve name changed since though so you won't remember me.

That massage sounds wonderful Iamb. it's giving me ideas Grin

Thanks so much for the understanding about the scales. Got new ones today and I’m down 1kg since last week which is lovely. This week I’ve been really careful about what I eat and drink partly because I’m away working over the weekend and leaving early tomorrow. I’ll be surrounded by lots of tempting food and sitting down to 3 meals a day which is part of the price of the accommodation I’m staying in with my work colleagues.

I think it’s going to be hard not to get sucked in to silly eating and I really don’t want to. The last time I was there I did get genuinely hungry and, though it's not physical, I think the work really takes it out of me.

It’s on the med, so I’m really going to try and eat proper med food. It’s looking cold though so I can’t see myself sticking just to veg and salads. Fingers crossed that I’ll be ok. Plus that I’ll be able to get out for some brisk walks and catching up on all your news.

Hope you all have a good evening . Grin

HLBug · 23/01/2019 18:55

Woah TiP that's certainly made me think. Sorry you had to go through that. You're right - absolutely not worth it.

MegEmski · 23/01/2019 19:08

hopping on this thread if thats ok waves

I have done 5:2 successfully a few years ago...
I'm currently 7 months post partum and have 1 - 1.5 stone to lose. I am still BFing but gradually getting less now my DD is on solids, so I've started in on 700 on my FD (today!)

looking forward to reading the threads

harriethoyle · 23/01/2019 19:16

Thanks @mazdazzle and @boysmomma... I persuaded the movers to let me "borrow" the cardboard wardrobe boxes my clothes are in so they're staying put for the moment! Grin

Kitchen is closing at 702 cals today which I'm really pleased with - average of 662 for my b2bs this week. Turns out not having a functional kitchen can work well with fasting!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2019 19:34

Welcome, meg 🙂
and good luck
700 FD is fine for BF after 6 months, but allow ourself wiggle room when sleep-deprived
Lots of advice and support here, whenever you want

Well done on your SV, groovie

That Med trip sounds fab Envy
Traditional Med food is a super-healthy, in fact exactly what Mosely recommends longterm:

lots of fish, beans, olives, veg/salads, olive oil, whole grains,
with traditional hot fish / bean / veg soups in this weather and ciabbata bread (olive oil & olives)
Keep to NHS alcohol rules
and just the occasional sugary treat, say 1-2 times in the trip.

Everyone:
Never worry that anyone here would get judgemental, because you'd have to describe something pretty incredible that none of us have done ourselves !
and Lots of times !

Even then, the only rules I'm strict about here are
"be supportive, be kind and don't judge"

JC Hand and / or feet massage could be one of your milestone rewards
I have that most Fridays, for a chilled end to the week and it is a reasonably priced treat, if things aren't tight, having saved on no snacks or junk through the week.

Well done on your FD, Harrie
Phew, hang onto that cardrobe wardrobe until you've unpacked and sorted
That'll keep you busy !

OP posts:
MegEmski · 23/01/2019 19:43

thank you @bigchocfrenzy - we average 1 - 2 wake ups a night so will see how we go

Iamblossom · 23/01/2019 20:00

Sounds like me at the moment meg and my kids are 12 and 14!! [weeps]. (Dog related)

MegEmski · 23/01/2019 20:03

oh no lamblossom - why? what is the woofer up to?

Ta1kinPeace · 23/01/2019 20:25

Bigchoc
re low blood pressure - interestingly I was always told to have something with fats in it - cheese, milk, yoghurt

my BP bottomed out at 80:50
it now sits at around 95:65
I have no idea why my resting heart rate drops to

  • my grandfather was was recorded as 20 for long periods -
and I have sleep apnoea despite being a non smoking yoga skinny

I love fasting and regularly do long periods on nothing but white tea
but am ever so careful about BP crashes

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2019 22:46

blossom As with DC, co-sleeping with a dog works for some families, but not for others 😏
My past dogs have always produced epic farts, so they were banished from the bedroom

OP posts:
Cheeeeislifenow · 24/01/2019 07:54

Morning all.
Hi Meg.
Sorry guys didn't post yesterday.
Today is a FD for me, and I am starting my new course today!
I am finding I am nowhere near my TDEE on FD, is that okay? So yesterday I had, B: bran flakes skimmed milk.
L:1 thin with grated mozzarella toasted and a cup of soup D: skinless chicken thighs and a massive plate of vegetables S: natural yogurt and blueberries, still came in at under 900 Cal's for the day.
So is it okay to be hitting 800 or 900 Cal's and doing my FD's. I should note I am not hungry on NFD at all. I am trying to eat a lot of veg.

JcHcks · 24/01/2019 07:54

Fast train for me today!! Good luck everyone on FD today! Smile

quackingduck222 · 24/01/2019 08:26

Me Darcy - Good luck for your FD today, I will be joining you.

Harriet- Hope the House move is going well. We halved our kitchen storage space in our new house. It’s a total pain.

Well done on your loss Pop, a loss is a loss and it all mounts up.

Boys - I went no junk for supposedly a week due to a gain. For me I think it’s made it easier as I still have my Xmas stash of chocolates in. If I clear then out I get panicked and crave them more but by having them in the house and telling myself next week it just makes it easier for me. The week came and went but the cravings disappeared so I’ve not had any. I used the same tactic with giving up smoking and it worked. Still have a packet of cigs in the house over 2.5 years on 😂

Cheese well done on your run. The no snacking is quite hard but once you get into it’s a bloody good habit.

Slinky- Well done on your loss.

Groovie- Also well done for your loss too, I hope you have a good weekend away.

Welcome to the thread Meg, I hope your first FD back went well.

Blossom- Also intrigued what your dog is upto. One of ours co-sleeps in the bed, he’s just learnt how comfy it is to have his head on the pillow and be under the duvet.

Good luck to everyone fasting today, let’s do this.

OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2019 09:27

Morning all

Checking in for my Friday FD and feeling good this week. Am wearing a top that had stopped fitting before Christmas and my jeans are getting loose - Grin

Well done to yesterdays fasters - harriet, boys, pumper

Well done on the SVs - Pop, slinky, groovie and the NSVs too cheese and scruffy on the exercise, and quacking on no junk!

TiP - OUCH on the facial surgery.... I dread to think!

Blossom - that massage sounds lovely, and of course self care is so important. I'm going to book one in as one of my rewards. I know a lovely lady who does hot stone massage which I adore.

Welcome Meg!

BigChoc I'm loving the mantra - ' be supportive, be kind, don't judge' and its so true, these threads are an incredibly supportive environment which is why I keep coming back!

Cheese - on the low NFD cals... for me I'd say 900 for an NFD is too low, but I suspect it depends on what your actual TDEE is (apologies, can't remember how far you have to go still). For me that would be a mini FD and far too low - but I quite regularly am only around 1400 and my TDEE is over 2000 at the moment. I guess it depends how you feel on it and how maintainable that amount is for you. I'd try to make yourself eat to TDEE maybe once a week for now? Should be easily done by adding some pasta / potato or something.

Good luck to everyone fasting today with me - JC and quacking!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 09:28

morning everyone, very jealous of your massage iam
excellent SV groovie and great that you now have working scales.... enjoy the trip but just try to be mindful, maybe skip breakfast or lunch and go for a walk instead?? Work situations are so tricky though

ouch Tip that sounds very scary indeed.

Welcome meg and you've done it before so you just need to get back into the zone, good luck

well done harriet getting your FD done mid house move

good luck with your dog iam
quacking my girl is not even allowed upstairs as like bcf's old dogs, she farts A LOT and there's no way I'm sharing my bed with her Envy

slinkyme · 24/01/2019 09:45

FD too today. Oh but I don't want to do this today. It's so so cold and I am tired and stressed with work and other things. I am
Going to be living on tea and coffee throughout today I think. Desperately want to have creamy hot porridge right now. But no will have coffee instead.

Will try to hold out till 12 for some soup. Good luck to all the fasters today.

OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2019 09:47

Remember slinky - if you really struggle today you can always make it a mini instead, allowing you more calories

good luck

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 09:49

good lick slinky but yes as mrd says either make it a mini or do it another day if you are struggling?

harriethoyle · 24/01/2019 09:49

Good luck @slinky @oohmr and @quacking! @slinky I find herbal tea very useful on cold fast days. Brew

@quacking new place is a doer upper so at some point I'll have a dream kitchen but not any time soon! Confused

Boysmomma · 24/01/2019 10:26

Morning all!

Kitchen closed at 623 again last night so my b2b is all over!

I had HIIT class in the gym this morning, christ I definitely sweat off another lb, a girl can dream Grin

@Cheeeis thank you, I'll give them a go over the weekend yum! Good luck with the running and your FD!

Glad you're feeling better @Bug

I'd love to run @scruffy just not for me, always been very jealous of my friends who do through.

oh @Tip that sounds terrifying, great advice!

@lamb you've given us all ideas now! Wow that sounds amazing!

@Groovie that's brilliant! And what a lovely trip, good luck, even if you can get some walking in that should help with the slumps!

Hi @Meg welcome aboard!

That was nice of them @Harriet, and well done on your FD!

@quacking wow! I'm almost 5 years on from quitting, never clicked with me to treat junk food like the smoking!! Good luck on your FD.

I'm on a NFD today but good luck @slinky, @Darcy, @quacking, @43, @JC and any other Thursday fasters!

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