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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 83: "Fast" Track your way to fat loss & better health ==> 5:2 your way to the new lean you

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2019 16:15

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Mosely's TDEE Calc - Exercisers:Use 1 activity level below what you think
Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units
Are You Addicted to Carbs Mosely’s Quiz

FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
snailhunter · 24/01/2019 10:47

FD for me as well, and doing well, despite it being SO COLD - I went for a run today (around the park: figured that it would be better to fall over in a snowy park rather than on an icy pavement) which actually really helped warm me up first thing. And I bought myself some amazing Ethiopian coffee for a lovely calorie-free FD treat which is DELICIOUS.

Joining the dog debate - we decided not to have the dog in the bedroom right from the start and it has been totally the right decision for us. He is happy in his bed downstairs, we are happy in our bed upstairs.

Iamblossom · 24/01/2019 10:53

Yes I agree, and ruby the daxie was downstairs for ages but I can’t hear her if she wants to go out and would rather have her with me than come downstairs to mess.

The black lab is NOT allowed upstairs.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 11:27

ha ha iam mine is a black lab also, I wonder if that's a coincidence Grin I haven't read your dog thread but hope ruby is okay??

snail well done on your run (brrrrrr) and the coffee sounds delicious, I'm off to make a cup now Brew to get me through to lunch which was going to be salad but its too fecking cold so its going to be soup!

Iamblossom · 24/01/2019 11:29

I am in the Bank of England today for meetings, freezing rain in London today, brrrrrrr

Iamblossom · 24/01/2019 11:31

Am SO excited about my weekend away with my girlfriend, check this cottage out

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 11:38

that's twice this morning you have made me jealous iam Grin cottage looks amazing, shame its too cold to use the pool...

RosaPalma · 24/01/2019 11:44

Hi all, I haven't checked in since Monday morning as I have been too busy but I just wanted to pop in to say to people who would understand that I have now officially moved down on the BMI scale from obese (thank you Christmas chocs and mince pies) to overweight (thank you 5:2 and the support of all you amazing people).

Yesterday was the second FD of my third week back on 5:2 and I weighed myself this morning and came in at 84kg. Just before I started three weeks ago I was 86.4. Another 400g and I am back to my pre holidays weight.

I had a sensible breakfast of pear and yogurt with a little sourdough and jam. Thai curry tonight and probably a poached egg with salad for lunch. I really need to pay attention over the next few NFD and remember to avoid snacks and overeating.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

Iamblossom · 24/01/2019 11:44

Sorry 43 I am just soooo looking forward to it. Pub lunches, dog walks, sitting by the fire with nice nibbles, cards, crosswords, Netflix, pyjamas. Repeat.

slinkyme · 24/01/2019 11:55

Thank you for all the supportive messages. I am in awe of all of you exercising today. Ofcourse it is the best thing to do especially when it is cold but I am not there yet. I am still on day 2 of Adrienne's 30 day yoga that started 2nd January. Even DD has overtaken me in doing these.

Well I stuck it out so far. I know the trick is to basically stop thinking about food by just getting myself busy. So I made myself a coffee and got my head down for 2 hrs of solid work and have managed to do a couple of PowerPoint decks that have been hanging for a while now. All done now. And I am treating myself with some miso soup.

Must remember to stock up on options hot choc, some dark chocolate, good coffee and low cal jal for fast days. Can anybody recommend any good coffee I can use in my cafetière? I am really off instant coffee currently and not even liking nespresso coffee.

slinkyme · 24/01/2019 11:55

What's the Ethiopian coffe like snail and where do you get it?

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 12:01

sounds like bliss iam

excellent work rosa on your SV and move into the next BMI category...

Yes slinky keeping busy is definitely a tactic for FDs.... enjoy your soup

slinkyme · 24/01/2019 12:17

Lamb that cottage looks great. I had no idea you could book cottages on air b n b. Have a lovely weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 12:31

Well done on your clothes NSV, MrD

cheee So long as you are not hungry on NFDs, it's fine to eat well under TDEE
In fact, Mosely's BSD is daily 800 for 8 weeks, without problem.

However, if this lack of hunger goes on for more than a few weeks, I recommend that on one day per week you add healthy high fat options to come up to your full TDEE
e.g.
B: a cheese omelette (with 2-3 complete eggs)
L: meat sandwich with thick veg soup
T: full fat yoghurt with fruit
S: oily fish like salmon or sardines, plenty of olive oil on salad or veg

Good luck, slinky
I find hot Bovril (a mere 10 cals) very comforting

If you find 500 FDs too tough in winter weather, you could try the alternate scheme of 3 weekly miniFDs which gives about the same loss
i.e. Mon+Wed+Fri have miniFDs (sub-1,000, no alcohol or junk)

Well done on your SV, Rosa
You can soon go down into new weight loss territory, now you've almost zapped the holiday regain.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2019 12:32

Blossom the cottage looks lovely! Very jealous!

Rosa - congrats on the SV / BMI category!

Slinky you are doing fab - keep going!

Its a bit of a mental struggle for me today too - not entirely sure why, but I'm constantly thinking about / craving food - anything really! Have had nothing but water and a cup of tea so far and I WILL keep it going, feeling the need for something comforting for dinner tonight so I'm having a small baked potato and some left over curry (small portion) which comes in at 488 total, so I can have a little something for lunch if I desire, which I may just to stop me thinking about it! Not worried if I hit 550 or so.

snailhunter · 24/01/2019 12:41

Amazing rosa, well done! Keep going slinky. I also find FDs much easier when I have lots of work to do in order to distract me, and plenty of non-food treats. Tonight I am planning to have a lovely long bath with nice bath oil and do some crochet. This is the coffee I mentioned - just picked it up in Waitrose cos it looked nice! You can use it in cafetieres - Taylors Rare Blossom Ethiopian. www.taylorsofharrogate.co.uk/products/rare-blossom-ethiopia/

Apparently it is 'uniquely fruity and fragrant, blooming with aromatic flavours of ripe mango, strawberry and honeysuckle. Underneath that complex sweetness hides a fascinating hint of wood and spice, with notes of nutmeg and whisky.' Fair enough: just tastes like damn good coffee to me! Very nice with only a tiny splash of milk, too, so perfect for my FDs.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/01/2019 13:37

Hot Bovril or a teasp Marmite could help you feel warmer, MrD

Brrr, bitterly cooool, especially on my bicycle commute.
we had snowflakes today but the the sun peaked out briefly and chased them away

OP posts:
slinkyme · 24/01/2019 13:52

Thank you for the coffee recommendation snail. Sounds divine. Used to use Taylor's coffees so will go investigate this.

OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2019 17:52

I've done it, kitchen closed on around 570

Pretty chuffed with myself, I've turned down a Costa and a cupcake today... bring on tomorrow's weigh in and we shall see what happens!

JcHcks · 24/01/2019 18:13

Well done oohmr. I'm excited about my weigh in tomorrow 😁 I'm closing the kitchen on 508 and am very pleased with myself. Here's hoping to pounds dropped tomorrow for everyone!!

slinkyme · 24/01/2019 18:27

Well finished on about 700 calories. Not bad for a first week back. Lesson learnt is to have all the things in that I can take without blowing my calories. I cheated by having a small bag of popcorn and a couple of Ryvita crackers during the day. Well done to all fasters and all the best for tomorrow but even if the scales don't move we are doing ourselves good.

MozzchopsThirty · 24/01/2019 18:47

Hi I'm looking for some 5:2 advice

I want to lose a stone in 8 weeks but also want to change how I eat. I generally eat really well but I think the fasting will help with weight loss

So my questions are:

What do you eat on fast days?

Do you normally just eat Lynch and dinner or just one meal?
I generally eat 500 calories per meal so I'm not sure how I can eat 2 meals

Do you steer clear of exercise on fast days?

Thank you 😊

scruffybarnsley · 24/01/2019 19:02

Second day of B2B today and have had a couple of ravenous periods but still not eaten yet and feel ok. A good reminder from being back on it is that feeling hungry won't kill me and it will pass which is something I was guilty of slipping into (I'm hungry, I must need something). Roast chicken and veg for tea and can't wait, smells lovely.

Mozz - welcome. I tend to save my calories for one meal in the evening so as to maximise my calories and also because once I start eating I feel like I need to continue! Whereas waiting until now feels simpler. I exercise on fast days (just a 20min jog) and I know there are others on here that do much more vigorous exercise on a FD and it's fine. I think utilising 500 calories for its 'maximum worth' is the answer to the 500 calorie meal issue - ie filling up on low calorie, healthy food (eg veg, veg, veg - and lean meat/fish if needed) and minimising carbs or high calorie food. The recipe thread on here has some amazing meals which are really satisfying for around 200 calories per portion so it would be worth checking that out.

Well done to all who have fasted today and kitchens already closed. Keep going!!!

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 24/01/2019 19:11

Well done Thurs fasters and good luck for weigh ins tomorrow... kitchen closed here on 524, today was tough as it was so cold!!!!

Welcome moz it's entirely up to you, I split my 500 over lunch and dinner, usually a subway salad or soup for lunch and omelette or chicken stirfry for dinner. Good luck....

MozzchopsThirty · 24/01/2019 19:41

Fab thank you for that Smile

I will take a look at the recipe thread

snailhunter · 24/01/2019 19:52

All done today at around 550 - has been weirdly easy! No idea why! I don't usually exercise on FDs so maybe that made the difference. I think I will try to do it more - just 30 min runs, nothing too crazy. Congrats all the freezing Thursday fasters.

mozz It really is up to you how you spread your FD cals. I prefer to eat nothing at all until around 6pm, then have dinner - I find it easier just to switch off any desire for food until then. If I acknowledge that food exists before then, I will want to eat more, if you see what I mean!

Lots of lovely things you can eat. As others have said, maximise nutritious calories and eat tons of veg - you can have a massive plate of salad/stirfry for very few cals! I go for protein-heavy stuff and lots of veg, like a lot of us here - typical FD meal for me is salmon fillet with tons of veg/salad, or omelette with mushrooms, big heap of salad and feta. I always have full fat Greek yog and berries for dessert, then I'm done for the day apart from a herbal tea before bed.

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