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EU ultimatum regarding Northern Ireland border

(244 Posts)
GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 18:36:57

Just been watching the BBC news about the EU demanding we must come up with a solution to the Northern Ireland border issue by the beginning of December.

My immediate thought was what the bugger has it got to do with the EU if we wished to put up a hard border between northern and Southern Ireland. Of course I understand that in reality a hard border is probably not ideal because of the turbulent history of Northern Ireland, but putting that aside, my question is why should this be part of the EU's Brexit negotiation. I don't consider it any of their business. Just because Southern Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland won't be is not a reason for the EU to demand we don't have a hard border. If France left the EU for example, they would be quite within their right to put up a hard border between itself and any EU countries bordering it.

KittyOShea Fri 17-Nov-17 18:40:40

The Good Friday Agreement was signed in an EU context and is EU law therefore it is very much their business- an issue the Brexiteers chose to ignore throughout all campaigning.

NI voted against Brexit- both for the border issue and the impact losing farm subsidies will have on the rural community. Additionally unsurprisingly most of our exports go to Ireland.

We have been very much shafted in the little Englander’s desires to have sovereignty- what about ours?

Cakescakescakes Fri 17-Nov-17 18:42:16

A full hard border isn’t possible as far as i know because of the terms of the Good Friday Agreement (the peace agreement effectively).

Cakescakescakes Fri 17-Nov-17 18:42:44

Cross posted!

DentalDilemma Fri 17-Nov-17 18:45:34

'Southern Ireland'? hmm

It's the ROI, FFS.

GhostofFrankGrimes Fri 17-Nov-17 18:55:38

Brexiteers despite considering themselves patriots cannot understand the complexities and nuances of NI politics. RoI is a member of the EU so of course the EU will take an interest.

NotNowBernard1 Fri 17-Nov-17 19:01:44

GirlsBlouse demonstrates why the British public should never have been given a vote on leaving the EU.

SoupyNorman Fri 17-Nov-17 19:02:46

Southern Ireland? Where's that then? hmm

Bearbehind Fri 17-Nov-17 19:03:17

Hopefully this will start to convince Leavers we can't just bluster our way out of this mess and that we actually need some serious answers.

DamsonGin Fri 17-Nov-17 19:08:08

"not ideal" is probably up there with MIL saying "oh that would be a shame" when I pointed out the potential to return to the Troubles. And may I suggest you educate yourself on ROI.

FlaviaAlbia Fri 17-Nov-17 19:13:02

What NotNowBernard1 said

gingercat02 Fri 17-Nov-17 19:19:56

The ignorance of most English people on the whole Ireland/N Ireland never fails to amaze me in the 26 years I have lived in England. Some Scots have an idea and no idea about the Welsh

Icantreachthepretzels Fri 17-Nov-17 19:24:10

You do realise this border runs through people's back gardens? That people live one side and work the other? And that there are roads that cross the border multiple times in a few miles stretch? So whacking up checkpoints would be fussy, irritating and borderline impossible - it would be if you suddenly put up a hard border between any two countries that had not previously had a hard border.

But the you get into the fact that ROI and NI are a pretty unique case. A hard border contravenes the GFA. The GFA is the thing that finally put an end to a bloody and devastating civil conflict. This might well start up again. But who the hell are 'southern Ireland' to tell us they don't want war breaking out on their island? Cheeky feckers! They should be happy to see conflict and bloodshed tear across their nation in pursuit of Britain's glorious sovereignty. Nay, they should be proud!

And then there's the economic problems it will bring.

I just despair and agree wholeheartedly with NotNowBernard1

woman11017 Fri 17-Nov-17 19:32:16

I like the cut of Mr Varadkar's jib.

@faisalislam
Varadkar also tells @skynews Ireland is in a “very strong position” as it has the strength of 26 member states and 400m people behind it

And

Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says "It would be very difficult for us to accept anything short of a written commitment that the British government means what it says"

You and 60 odd million of us here in brexit britain, Mr Varadkar.

BowlingShoes Fri 17-Nov-17 19:32:31

Ridiculous to compare the situation in Ireland with France and its neighbours. Ireland is geopolitically unique. MPs in NI are almost equally divided between Sinn Fein and the DUP. Sinn Fein will not countenance a hard border with the ROI, the DUP will not countenance a sea border between NI and the rest of the UK. It seems an impossible situation, unless the UK remains inside the customs Union.

GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 19:42:21

Oh you bunch of condescending so and sos. Can't someone ask a question on here without having all these insulting replies? Is also funny that you assume I'm a Brexiteer. Anyone on both sides could ask this question. However all Remainers are obviously superior and informed about everything. I'm no expert on the Peace Process and didn't know that it was given the EU stamp of approval. Now I do, thank you. It is a shame during the Referendum last year that the debate on either side was so lacklustre . The Remain campaign may have won if you lot had run it

Springbreeze Fri 17-Nov-17 20:07:01

Girlsblouse - I will assume that you are not a troll and take your question at face value.

NI is in a unique position in the UK. In 1919, Ireland voted overwhelmingly for independence - over 75% of all votes, and 28 out of 32 counties.

In most circumstances, this would have meant that the entire country should have been given independence. However, Britain resisted. In the area around Belfast there was a protestant minority (descended from colonial settlers) who identified as British and never integrated with the rest of the country. They had threatened violence any time even limited independence for Ireland - such as Home Rule - had been talked about.

Britain would only allow Ireland independence if the protestant settlers were given their own country and allowed to remain part of the UK. Britain drew a border designed to give a permanent protestant majority.

This partition - against the will of the vast majority of the Irish people - led to the creation of NI and a civil war. It has never been accepted by many of the native Irish catholics in NI who overnight became a minority in their own country.

GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 20:16:17

Thank you Springbreeze. My question was more to do with why it is the EU's business and why it is part of the EU Brexit negotiations but others on here have now kindly and explained the reason for this so thank you very much everyone

Springbreeze Fri 17-Nov-17 20:20:10

posted too soon.

But anyway, there’s no way you can compare a border between NI and the Republic to one between England and France. First, almost half the population of NI identify as being closer to Ireland than Britain. For them this is equivalent to drawing a border through their own country. Second, a sea border is massively easier to police than a land border, which is vulnerable to smuggling etc.

Bearbehind Fri 17-Nov-17 20:22:58

OP, as others have said, the very fact you have no clue why the EU is insisting an agreement is reached on the irish border, is the very reason this should never have been put to a public vote.

The consequences are too serious.

GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 20:28:29

You are right Bearbehind. None of us should have had the vote

GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 20:29:04

Well done David Cameron

Bearbehind Fri 17-Nov-17 20:32:45

If you voted you had a duty to consider the repercussions.

Denying any responsibility now is unacceptable.

woman11017 Fri 17-Nov-17 20:43:56

If you voted you had a duty to consider the repercussions
I was pretty ignorant about the EU when I voted bearbehind I have learnt a bit more since the ref.

The GFA is so precious. Kudos to politicians of every party ( nearly) who managed to create it. I was a teen during the troubles.
The peace is priceless, hoping we can find a way through.

Some leavers might be having second thoughts, they're more than welcome to. 2016 is a long time ago already.

GirlsBlouse17 Fri 17-Nov-17 20:44:32

My responsibility was to make a voting decision based on the facts that I was given and facts that I researched which is what I did. If you believed at the time that the Leave campaign was ill informed then you had a responsibility to make everyone aware of all the facts they needed to make a decision. The Remain campaign obviously did not do this so should take responsibility like everyone else for the outcome of the Referendum

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