EU ultimatum regarding Northern Ireland border

[GirlsBlouse17]

Just been watching the BBC news about the EU demanding we must come up with a solution to the Northern Ireland border issue by the beginning of December.

My immediate thought was what the bugger has it got to do with the EU if we wished to put up a hard border between northern and Southern Ireland. Of course I understand that in reality a hard border is probably not ideal because of the turbulent history of Northern Ireland, but putting that aside, my question is why should this be part of the EU's Brexit negotiation. I don't consider it any of their business. Just because Southern Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland won't be is not a reason for the EU to demand we don't have a hard border. If France left the EU for example, they would be quite within their right to put up a hard border between itself and any EU countries bordering it.

I wouldn't think so. Children born in the UK to an Irish parent have the right to British citizenship from birth and that predates either country joining the EEA. No reason why that would need to change.

Salient point that Irish citizens living in the UK aren't just in NI though.

With your background you have no excuse not to understand why other people might consider themselves to have a legitimate reason to call the place they're from the north of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland

You’ll have to quote my post where I said I didn’t understand why people might consider themselves to have a legitimate reason to call the place they're from the north of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland because I don’t recall ever having said that.

Who are you to tell me, or any other poster, we are wrong about what we name the place we're from?

Someone who understands the difference between what something is actually called and what you wish it was called. The name of the country is Northern Ireland. You don’t have to recognise that, you can work towards changing it but right now, that is it’s name. There really is no way you can argue with that.

isa there are lots of people living in the UK with Irish and many other EU passports NI won't be unique

there are lots of people living in the UK with Irish and many other EU passports NI won't be unique

How true is that? NI citizens have the right, by virtue of the GFA, to identify as Irish, British or both. I am a British citizen, born in England - I don't have any right to claim Irish nationality. Do any other countries offer dual nationality as a matter of course?

Yesterday Boris Johnson said on @SkyNews that he hadn’t understood the Irish position until now....

As someone who grew up in Northern Ireland during the worst of the troubles that makes me really angry!!

The complete mess that is being made of this is astonishing.

It depends on where you are when you refer to the country...

The country may well be ni...however if I am abroad and talking to someone of different language I would always say I am from the north of ireland...

If talking to someone from the south in a bar we will talk about the north of ireland and the south of ireland....

I personally don't see offence as to how anyone terms it...

Does anyone remember the days of EIRE on your letters?

@MynewnameisKy

Boris said that? When? I want to listen to what that fool said.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/uk-at-impasse-on-brexit-talks-irelands-foreign-minister-warns-11129774

As an Irish person (ROI) I don't like the phrase North of Ireland because it implies that some part of the country of Ireland is currently part of the UK. Which isn't true. Northern Ireland is its own separate legal entity, and I think it's important to acknowledge that - whether because you want to preserve it, or because you want to change that!

You’ll have to quote my post where I said I didn’t understand why people might consider themselves to have a legitimate reason to call the place they're from the north of Ireland rather than Northern Ireland because I don’t recall ever having said that.

You didn't say that. But if you really understood that others consider they have a legitimate reason then you wouldn't have corrected someone who called the region something different from you.

We all have to respect each other's political alliances and religion and differing sensitivities. That's what the GFA is bloody about - choosing to accept all the differences and instead prioritising living beside each other peacefully. Thus, call that disputed territory at the north east of the island of Ireland whatever the fuck you want. But don't fucking correct those of us who have a different opinion to you, as it enflames and goads.

The name of the country is not an opinion. It really isn’t. You dont have to like it or agree with what it is called, but that is what it is called.

someone who called the region something different from you.

Not different from me, different from it’s actual name.

Come on battered you really cannot claim to be living in NI and need it explaining to you that a significant proportion of the population consider that this name was imposed on their ancestors unwillingly and therefore do not recognise it? Why would they claim to be Irish and have Irish passports if they (and I am one of those) consider themselves to have been born in and live in part of the UK?

Either fess up that your background is not as you claim, or face up to the fact that you're being deliberately goady.
I'll be reporting the HQ, as I suspect the latter.

and need it explaining to you

I need nothing explaining to me. I understand the position perfectly well. It does not however change the fact that the country is currently called Northern Ireland. Regardless of what people prefer to think of it as.

Report if it pleases you. I have lied about nothing.

But the real question is it the Falkland Islands or the Malvinas? Most people living there call it the Falkland Islands, so I think quite a few people think that gives dibs. Others think no. That the French were there before the British, they had the very first dibs and gave their option to the Argentinians as a successor in title, so to speak.

Which goes onto the British Isles. Ireland does not consider itself them part of the British Isles. And the School's Folens Atlas does not include them as part of the British Isles. These bundle of islands are the British Isles and Ireland. Other terms are used which include Iceland. Western Atlantic Islands and so on. Yet this claiming terminology persists on British references to include Ireland. Even though Ireland say this ain't their handle.

www.irishtimes.com/news/folens-to-wipe-british-isles-off-the-map-in-new-atlas-1.1009971

I wonder if some British people or the British gov't still refer to Zimbabwe as Rhodesia? Or Sri Lanka as Ceylon?

But bizarrely,
Folens will retain the British Isles in its atlases produced for children in the United Kingdom, which includes Northern Ireland.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1530388/British-Isles-is-removed-from-school-atlases.html

isa there are lots of people living in the UK with Irish and many other EU passports NI won't be unique

This is not correct. The rights of an Irish person living in the UK and those of a person living in NI who identifies as solely Irish do not have the same legal basis.

For leavers saying they were not informed/unaware of complexities of NI. And I'm no fan of Osborne...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36462023

Good Post FrankGrimes - pity it wasn't on the side of a bus, people might have thought a bit more then.

Maybe not, though, a significant number of people in England will say, 'so what? when N Ireland is mentioned.

isa there are lots of people living in the UK with Irish and many other EU passports NI won't be unique

Yes it will.

This is an example of a geographically concentrated group of people, some of whom will be living basically on the border (look at the demographics of NI and where the people more likely to solely identify as Irish live) and who, most importantly, HAVEN'T MOVED. This makes them very different from eg a Pole who migrated to Birmingham.

So, not the same thing as your example, and this is one of the reasons why the EU are prioritising the matter.

some of whom will be living basically on the border
It's like a weird sort of Berlin wall moment.
What utter idiots this british government is.

What utter idiots this british government is.
Well they were presented with an impossible problem.
The utter idiots are those who voted for Brexit.

The utter idiots are those who voted for Brexit

Not true.
And if I may say, this harms those who want a change of brexit direction. Please don't insult those who could change their minds.
Many voted because they thought it might save the NHS. Completely understandable.

they were presented with an impossible problem
The problem was not impossible. EU governments have been facing down ultra right and left wing factions for decades.
The tories are just too enfeebled to do so.

The vote is ancient history. Nearly 2 years old. Many leavers have had a change of heart, not welcoming them plays into the hands of those who stand to make billions out of brexit.

Well they were presented with an impossible problem.

And this impossible problem came completely out of the blue? Where was Cameron's preparation before calling the Referendum, and getting a full understanding of the Northern Ireland situation?

But really, it would not be impossible if they hadn't ruled out the one workable solution which is to stay in the Single Market and Customs union, instead of trying to appease hard right Tories. Let's cut out the rubbish about "it's the will of the people, we must respect the will of the people" because no one was asked whether we wanted to leave the Single Market and Customs union. Besides which, Governments are usually more than happy to ignore the will of the people when it suits them.

The other workable solution of course, is to call the whole Brexit thing off.