EU ultimatum regarding Northern Ireland border

[GirlsBlouse17]

Just been watching the BBC news about the EU demanding we must come up with a solution to the Northern Ireland border issue by the beginning of December.

My immediate thought was what the bugger has it got to do with the EU if we wished to put up a hard border between northern and Southern Ireland. Of course I understand that in reality a hard border is probably not ideal because of the turbulent history of Northern Ireland, but putting that aside, my question is why should this be part of the EU's Brexit negotiation. I don't consider it any of their business. Just because Southern Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland won't be is not a reason for the EU to demand we don't have a hard border. If France left the EU for example, they would be quite within their right to put up a hard border between itself and any EU countries bordering it.

I did do a lot of research Bearbehind but not on Northern Ireland because no-one flagged this up as an issue so I didn't consider it.
Whether you did a lot of research or not, it's not true to say that no one flagged it up as an issue. For me it was one of the key factors swinging my vote towards Remain. Sadly I think your posting is oh so typical of so many voters in England, they know little about N Ireland, and don't really care either. You might have got a more sympathetic response if you had started of by saying that you were ashamed to admit you were woefully ignorant about the NI/RoI situation, instead of pitching in with what does it have to do with the EU and implying that the bloodshed of the Troubles, is 'not ideal'.

OP you lost me almost immediately when you said RoI was none of EU's business. Ill-informed from the get go so, downhill from there really. I'm sticking to reading the thread comments

Holy I don't know if this us a good analogy but if I want to put up a fence on my land between my garden and my neighbours then that is up to me and not for my neighbour to tell me whether I can or not . So I was asking why the EU are wanting to include the border of N Ireland in the Brexit negotiations.

I have been educated now so thank you very much everyone

You could even have done some research via MN OP, we have been discussing it since the Referendum itself, with real fear being expressed that the Troubles could break out again.

I wasn't on MN then Peregrina but am guessing that rather than discussion and refreshing debate there was probably a lot of aggression and abuse in its place

Holy I don't know if this us a good analogy but if I want to put up a fence on my land between my garden and my neighbours then that is up to me and not for my neighbour to tell me whether I can or not .

It's probably not a good analogy, haven't you heard of neighbours having boundary disputes? But, since you don't know a great deal about NI/RoI and the Good Friday Agreement, perhaps you are not aware either that citizens of NI have the option of being Irish, British or both. The GFA was hard won, by Major, Blair, Barnier, as an EU commissioner to name a few people. No solution that the UK Government is prepared to countenance can accommodate all the differing viewpoints. Staying in the customs union and the Single Market would, but May immediately ruled that option out.

It's not really a good analogy though. Again, stripping everything else out of it, it's more like putting a fence through the lane which both of you use to cross multiple times a day. Where your kids run in and out of each others gardens, playing with each others toys.
A bit like when me and my sister would have a fight and try to split up the room but each of us had our own opinions on how we could access both the door and the wardrobe. the debate was so boring that we'd normally forget what we were arguing about and start practicing our Dirty Dancing moves again. Probably not a likely outcome here though

Woman I have nieces and nephews who've never experienced it either, they're adults now and less than 30 minutes from the border and they can't wrap their heads around the idea of even the border points. Thankfully all they can see is that it would be so much hassle! I'm not angry with people in England, Scotland or Wales for not really understanding it, it's only with the benefit of time and distance do I realise how it wasn't the norm. This forum has opened my eyes so much to how uninformed the rest of the UK was from it all, then and now.

I wasn't on MN then Peregrina but am guessing that rather than discussion and refreshing debate there was probably a lot of aggression and abuse in its place

You wouldn't have needed to be on MN since June 2016 - an advanced search with e.g. Good Friday Agreement would bring up a number of posts. For those who genuinely want to see a solution in N Ireland there were some very thoughtful and informative debates. For those extreme brexiteers on MN who want out of the EU and hang the consequences to anyone else, there were the usual non answers and aggressive posts.

I wondered why it should be part of the EU negotiation on Brexit

Do you realise that the majority of possible 'solutions' to the border issue comes with a very big, very real risk of a return to violence in Northern Ireland?

I was evacuated last week at 8pm at night. The police came and told us there was a 'viable device' (bomb) outside our house. We weren't bothered - we nipped to a friends for a few hours. That is normality here. The border issue could realistically lead to these bombs being set off with NO warning. Thankfully though the EU seems to give a shit about that. Unlike Theresa it would seem...

That's just it PinkPanther - maybe the average person doesn't know although how anyone over 25 or 30 can not have some idea of the Troubles is beyond me, but the Government most certainly should have done, and should be putting substantially more effort into resolving the issues than it appears to be doing. As for Theresa May propping up her Government with the assistance of the DUP, words failed me; it just showed how extremely ignorant she was of history, and apparently indifferent to it all.

This is on BBC still, about Bobby Sands
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096msfr

I know it's very partial, hope it doesn't offend anyone, but it taught me stuff I had known nothing about.

On the GFA didn't Julie Walters make a film about Mo Mowlam, the labour minister who was part of the peace process?
Mo (2010 film) - Wikipedia

Hope your nieces and nephews can continue to think this HolyShmoly they can see is that it would be so much hassle! And all our kids can.

I didn't know and don't know enough to contribute to the old referendum NI threads but I did like the potato jokes.

ThePinkPanter sounds terrifying, and not reported on the mainland.

Peregrina of course I know about the troubles in N Ireland although I admit I didn't understand the complexities of the situation there. My original question though was why the EU thought it should be included as part of the Brexit negotiations

OP - I'm English I Started asking similar questions when the DUP entered the coalition. I got a similar ( and when directed to me mostly valid) response about the people in rest of UK only being interested in NI when it begins to affect us.

Since then I try to listen to BBC radio Ulster occasionally, or Inside Politics podcast, not just when NI gets onto my BBC national news. It isn't easy because I don't know the politicians, but it is interesting. I've also had a go at listening to BBC Scotland, but not Wales yet.

That's the thing woman - it's not terrifying. It's normal. The whole situation here is so awful it would nearly make you laugh. As Peregrine says this DUP coalition is an absolute disgrace and Teresa May is disgusting to put our country at risk for the sake of a few bloody votes.

Thanks Woman, I hope so too.

PinkPanter, I think I read a small bit of that, but I read Irish and UK news sites, so I'm not sure where I saw it. There's feck all reported over here about NI. Including the current state of Stormont.

OP do you feel like your original question has been answered? Do you have any follow up questions? I'm not being sarky, I would genuinely like to make sure you understand the basics. Then if anyone you speak to asks similar things, you can inform them and the somehow we can communicate the information that the media and government clearly can't be arsed to.

Thank you SingaSong I think it would be a good idea to learn more about this. I don't want things to go back to how they were in N Ireland so hope that a decent solution will be found soon

It is the EUs business because the residents on ROI are EU citizens.

Holy I feel it has. I didn't realise that the EU were originally involved in the Good Friday Agreement and I understand that the border goes through people's houses etc so it's not practical for a hard border to be put up. Also there are complexities regarding those wanting to be part of the republic and those wanting to remain in the UK . Also those in RoI living on the border will be hugely affected

Some of the residents of NI will also remain EU citizens - unless Theresa May decides to rip up the GFA. I hope she's not so stupid as to rip up an international treaty, but who knows what she might do to appease some of the right wing idiots in her Cabinet?

Kudos OP for taking what's being said on board and taking the time to read and take in the responses

Kudos OP I agree, nice thread. all

That's interesting Peregrina.

Thank you Pink

Thanks Woman

That's a good summing up GirlsBlouse. Sorry if I snapped at you earlier, I just feel very frustrated by it all, especially the lack of basic information.