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You're white you haven't experienced racism 4

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PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 17:43:06

Continued.

OP’s posts: |
PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 17:47:39

*patricks - try changing irish to black in your post to luma and see if you can answer your own question. Spoiler - you can't? Because as everyone on this thread seems to be able to acknowledge race is not that easy to define!

I've stated quite a few times now.
Can you explain to me, as an Irish person, which facial features you have that are exclusive to Irish people?*

Can you explain to me, as a black person, which facial features you have that are exclusive to black people?

Dark brown skin.
As stated someone who is Asian may have dark brown skin and therefore experience the same racism we face. They aren't black by definition but look black and therefore are black when it comes to racism

@lemonsandlimes123

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PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 17:48:42

@WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee thank you again for tirelessly trying to explain

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Dreep Sun 07-Jun-20 17:52:11

I shouldn’t have to self define.

So you think other people should define your race?

I can’t see why not. You did. And b definition you are another person. Or other people as it were.

Dreep Sun 07-Jun-20 17:52:52

By - not ‘b’

PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 17:53:53

*she doesn’t get to define me either
I shouldn’t have to self define.*

This makes no sense.

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MorrisZapp Sun 07-Jun-20 17:54:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

qweryuiop Sun 07-Jun-20 17:55:52

@wokeupsmeltthecoffee

*Black people dying in custody is cos there are more of them there cos they are criminals
Black people not getting into Oxbridge is because they don't get the grades cos they are stupid*

Honestly, honestly, this is not what I or hooves said.

Both of those things are because of systemic racism towards them, their parents, their grandparents, and so on.

decisionsdecision Sun 07-Jun-20 17:57:23

My only point has been ^BLM isn't about white people

Of course it's not. I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise and most people over these 3 threads have wholeheartedly agreed. People are annoyed and triggered by the idea that racism is only against black people which clearly it is not.
all the resources that have been provided do not deny that other people who are not black can face racism. The idea that it is only black people who can face racism is a narrow view to fit one narrative. Racism is unfortunately rife within every community however at the moment black lives need people more it doesn't mean that they are the only ones to face racism.

lemonsandlimes123 Sun 07-Jun-20 17:59:45

Patricks -

As stated someone who is Asian may have dark brown skin and therefore experience the same racism we face. They aren't black by definition but look black and therefore are black when it comes to racism

So now Asian people ARE black provided they are dark enough for your definition but lighter skinned people like Dreep for example aren't?

Come on! Look at the nonsense you are posting. Why not just accept that there is no definition of black that is universal and as such YOU can't decide who gets to be represented by BLM. I have never seen a single other person advocating for BLM who is determind to make sure that people know they are excluded from the movement. Admit you made an error and move on.

lemonsandlimes123 Sun 07-Jun-20 18:02:11

Dreep - I have started another thread that I would be interested to get your view on. Also anyone else who is interested be they POC or otherwise.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3931856-To-ask-what-should-the-top-3-priorities-be-in-terms-of-addressing-race-based-inequality-in-the-UK

Dreep Sun 07-Jun-20 18:03:31

It makes sense to me. But it is al apparently about how others choose to interpret things. It has been said when some posts have been challenged has it not?

You don’t know me. You don’t get to define me. You don’t get to make assumptions on race because I’m not dark brown.

But self define? I am what I am. I don’t have to define it. Not to you. Not to anyone. Accept me for what I am or don’t.

Why would I have to self define the obvious to myself?

I could self define as a size 8. It doesn’t matter how much I proclaim it, it will never be so.

lemonsandlimes123 Sun 07-Jun-20 18:03:39

morriszapp - are you in the UK because your link comes up as unavailable in the europe for me

MorrisZapp Sun 07-Jun-20 18:08:33

Oh god sorry! I followed the link from the fb page of my favourite writer (Joe Lansdale, creator of Hap and Leonard, also starring MKW) but the link I posted here doesn't work. I'll ask MN to remove.

MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive Sun 07-Jun-20 18:09:29

Hooves (and others inc Dreep) your refusal to stop haranguing and aggressively questioning OP is actually really uncomfortable to read. You seem absolutely hellbent on denying and minimising racism towards black people and you are so so insistent with your what abouts and buts and howevers and my statistics say this and but what about. Why do you keep doing this? Why are you trying to make OP's threads all about you and your opinions? God knows we all know your opinions by now! Give other people a chance. This is OP's third thread that you have pretty much filled up yourself - why can't you let other people speak and let OP interact with others instead of trying to respond to your insistent haranguing?

I have a genuine question for you. November is National Epilepsy Awareness month - where people try and raise awareness and educate others on epilepsy. If I make a post specifically about this would you go on and on and on with "what about people with other disabilities? Why can't this month be for all disabled people. They suffer disablism and need to make awareness too. All disabled people matter. Why are you ignoring them, we are all in it together"? Would you fill up three threads trying to argue this? If you wouldn't say this, why are you doing it to OP? If you would say this how you reply when I say

"I'm not denying other people but I started this thread specifically to talk about epilepsy - please feel free to start your own posts about arthritis (for example) or whatever disability you want to talk about and raise awareness. I am here to talk about epilepsy at this time"

Because OP has said this to you yet you just won't leave her alone.

I also don't think people without disabilities can suffer disablism. I think they can experience prejudice about lots of different aspects for example social class etc and I'm not denying that. Similarly OP has clearly said she knows other races can suffer prejudice and she acknowledges that. She has acknowledged that clearly! But she is talking about racism towards black people and saying you don't experience this if you are white. You haven't experienced this racism, you may have experienced prejudice (OP agrees!) and that is equally shit and they should be supported if they make a thread about it.

Why on earth do you feel the need to try and take over this thread and force OP to accept your views which she doesn't agree with? If you don't agree with her, fine, you've made your point don't you think?

Why on earth can't you just let OP say "you may have experienced prejudice but I don't believe you have suffered racism". Could you extend her the courtesy of letting her speak instead of shouting over her. Why don't you start your own thread so you don't fill up a fourth one which OP has posted not you.

She wants a discussion; not an argument with the same half a dozen people and one person in particular. Just stop, please. Let her discuss what she wants and let other people have a chance to agree or disagree instead of just hearing your voice. You've dominated these threads, not OP. It's fucking bad form even without it making you look like you have an agenda.

Please stop.

PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 18:10:12

*So now Asian people ARE black provided they are dark enough for your definition but lighter skinned people like Dreep for example aren't?
*I'm lighter skinned myself. I have mixed heritage. White in my make up. It would be hypocritical of me to claim someone isn't dark enough to be represented.
If they're dark enough to look black then they will have undoubtedly experienced the same racism.

Come on! Look at the nonsense you are posting. Why not just accept that there is no definition of black that is universal and as such YOU can't decide who gets to be represented by BLM. I have never seen a single other person advocating for BLM who is determind to make sure that people know they are excluded from the movement. Admit you made an error and move on.
I have said it isn't simply defined. It is broad.
I haven't seen a single person come on and say^ Patricks I am xyz can I be represented by the BLM
What I^ havd seen is posters say All Lives Matter. What about this. What about that. What about those people.
I've never once said xyz cannot^ be represented by BLM.^ If I have, show me and I'll hold my hands up.

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PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 18:11:10

@lemonsandlimes123 I'm interested to see your response to the first comment on your thread.

OP’s posts: |
MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive Sun 07-Jun-20 18:12:54

And this is the fourth thread. Actually do you know what, don't bother to answer my epilepsy question.

Why is your need to get your opinions across more important that giving the OP the chance to speak. I have no doubt people wanting to post here are put off because you not OP are making it fucking Fight Club.

I have no doubt you won't let other people speak though and you'll keep filling the thread with your own opinions we have heard and heard. Your refusal to let her speak is poor.

Siameasy Sun 07-Jun-20 18:13:00

I interpret it as - white people belonging to certain ethnic or religious groups (Roma or Jews for instance) have been persecuted (and still are). However-they are not persecuted because they are white.

The persecutors of these people are/were white.

lemonsandlimes123 Sun 07-Jun-20 18:13:26

myeyesight -If you started a thread saying "People without epilepsy can't be disabled' then i expect you would get a similar response. If you then spent 3 threads dismissing, blind people, wheelchair users and other people with disabilities, contradicting yourself and failing to respond to questions I suspect things would be similar to how they have been on these threads.

dobbyssoc Sun 07-Jun-20 18:13:25

@PatricksRum what was wrong with my comment. She asked top 3 I swapped one of hers whilst still agreeing that it is an issue for poc. Where have I gone wrong?

WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee Sun 07-Jun-20 18:17:18

Querioup you did not say that but zebrahooves did

She has an utter insistence on picking over the stats trying to get them to say things they don't and to deny and minimise racism against black people.

That plus her charming Holocaust denial accusations which were deleted.

I am afraid I have formed my opinion about her motivation now and there is no longer any benefit of the doubt for her

As she said the posts are there if people want to read them

PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 18:19:10

@MyEyesightIsBadLetsGoForADrive
I really appreciate your post

It's interesting how the same posters say they are done but keep coming back and pick one comment of mine to pick apart despite us having the same viewpoints in my other points.

I'd love to hear from more people and I hope I'm given the chance to discuss with other people whilst not feeling I have to be so abrupt and rash.

OP’s posts: |
Dreep Sun 07-Jun-20 18:19:17

How exactly do I wish to minimise racism against black people?

News to me. I’d be doing myself a massive disservice for starters.

And for clarity, I left the thread today but a ridiculous statement was made and I had to counter it.

I’m not forcing anyone to do anything.

The OP wants a discussion. But seemingly only on her terms. And not many are allowed to get their point acknowledged without getting it shouted down. Or dismissed. Or being told their opinions don’t count. That isn’t a discussion but perhaps that has been redefined also?

I won’t go away while that is happening.

And if you think I haven’t experienced racism, I’m sorry but you are very much mistaken.

PatricksRum Sun 07-Jun-20 18:19:46

*I interpret it as - white people belonging to certain ethnic or religious groups (Roma or Jews for instance) have been persecuted (and still are). However-they are not persecuted because they are white.

The persecutors of these people are/were white.*

Quite right.

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