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To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

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flibbertyfive Tue 12-Jun-18 23:59:44

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

FannyFaceAche Wed 13-Jun-18 00:06:54

Argh, don't get me started. This is really bad. I'm shitting it. We live in Germany, working thanks to freedom of movement rights. I've had my rant on here about brexit the other day, but if it's a hard brexit, our little family is fucked (let alone the population of the UK). Well and truly shafted.

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:15:09

MN seems to be barely acknowledging it.

Even tumbleweed on the politics sections.

The most important change in our lifetimes politically.

Now irrevocable, thanks to the cowardice of MPs on both sides of the house.

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:18:32

But we will extremely soon be looking at massive inflation and job losses, miles-long jams at all ports, lack of science funding etc.

On the pro side, house prices should drop like a stone though, as wages fall, the economy crashes and no-one wants/is able to move here.

PerfectlyDone Wed 13-Jun-18 00:18:56

Well, I'm ready for a hard Brexit - I shall be going back home.
After 25 years of serving in the NHS I will remove my experience and professional expertise, my higher rate tax paying and my support of the local community I live and work in. And go 'back to where I came from'.

And I am gutted about that, but at least I have the option.
This is my home and I am livid.
But I shall leave if things get back rather than pay £££££ to apply for citizenship.

LineRunners Wed 13-Jun-18 00:20:00

My MP voted against this madness. Small comfort though.

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:25:34

Mine didn't. angry

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:27:03

Can't wait to hear from one of the 52% to tell us all why Brexit is such a great idea.

Or maybe, like Farage, Nigel Lawson etc, they all live abroad so couldn't give a shit?

PerfectlyDone Wed 13-Jun-18 00:29:16

Don't forget Shiny Dave who landed us in this mess, only to bugger off and earn six figure sums on the after dinner speech circuit hmmangry

MessyMeTarr Wed 13-Jun-18 00:29:58

Most people have their heads firmly buried in the sand. Hard Brexit is terrifying. I am torn between fury that it could happen and despair.

* Brextremists and ostriches will be along shortly to tell us we are being hysterical though. You carry on ignoring the problem people, doesn't mean it won't happen. hmm

PerfectlyDone Wed 13-Jun-18 00:30:59

Yes, we must all stop ReMoaning <nods sagely>

ChickenOrEgg6 Wed 13-Jun-18 00:35:03

Does anyone have a link? I haven't heard about the commons vote blush

GardenGeek Wed 13-Jun-18 00:45:16

What I don't get is how remainers dont want to accept the point of brexit is a hard brexit; and yet are upset that the government have spent 2 years refusing to accept or prepare for a hard brexit.

And now as they finally move forward to accepting/ agreeing/ and hopefully now preparing for a hard brexit - thats awful too.

I dont know, I am finding it hard to make sense of it tbh.

LizzieSiddal Wed 13-Jun-18 00:52:13

I think most people don’t want to talk about it as they feel utterly powerless.

We all know it’s going to be a shamble. What can we do?

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:54:31

"What I don't get is how remainers dont want to accept the point of brexit is a hard Brexit"

According to whom? Not according to voters or Brexit politicians.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce

eg "Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing"
Nigel Farage, Ukip leader(pre-Referendum)

"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK"
Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder(ditto)

Leading Leavers all promised voters we would stay in the single market and go for a Norway-style deal. THAT is what Leave voters voted for. Along with £350/a week for the NHS, of course. hmm

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 00:58:22

ChickenOrEgg6 - it was today's vote on whether MPs will get a "meaningful vote" on the final Brexit package. The Lords had been arguing Parliament should make the final decision, not just the government. That was overturned today in the Commons.

Therefore May - forced by hard Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg - can basically get away with anything now and Parliament has signed away its only opportunity to amend the legislation.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/12/may-narrowly-avoids-brexit-bill-defeat-over-meaningful-vote

flibbertyfive Wed 13-Jun-18 01:00:18

GardenGeek - as you appear to be a Brexiteer, I'd love to hear why you voted Leave and which aspects of Brexit you're particularly looking forward to.

Cheer us all up, please.

Point out the upsides I've missed (I admit that house prices crashing will be a boon for many, but am rather stuck on the others).

GardenGeek Wed 13-Jun-18 01:17:17

I am sure you would flib grin
Thats going to be longer than I have time for so I will save us both the pain of starting that discussion and leaving it half unanswered.

I do personally believe there will be many benefits of Brexit - otherwise I wouldn't have voted for it obviously!

But seriously I see your upset, and you have every right to be as this isnt what you wanted. But logically you can only be upset about some of this stuff, and you are getting upset about it all.

For example you can be upset the vote for brexit and want for a hard brexit but to be also upset when the government don't prepare and then do start to prepare is just getting upset about it all IYSWIM. Its not objective.

Would you prefer they prepare or not? You probably don't have the answer to that and thats fine honestly, but being upset about both simultaneously is just circular and leads nowhere.

truckdrive Wed 13-Jun-18 01:30:15

People talk about the european project as being something all wonderful - and can only see how some things may negatively affect them.

Well let me tell you - the wages in my industry have been decimated by allowing drivers from Poland and Romania to invade. Why not spare a thought for my family? They are not brought it because they have skilsl we do not - they are brought in because they are cheap. The number of serious accidents caused by people who can get their HGV licence by driving their uncles tractor is disgusting.

I do not believe that the ports will be backlogged. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of driving trucks all around europe and outside of it. And in reality it's just a small amount of paperwork. What will hopefully stop is the mass invasion of cheap labour.

truckdrive Wed 13-Jun-18 01:34:38

And no one voting for brexit (as I'm proud to say I did) actually wanted the invasion to continue.

I'm not racist. I don't really care where someone is from. What I object to is people being able to flood our labour markets - make our roads less safe and for there to be no way to stop this.

Same goes for loads of other jobs... Including pharmacy. Which my partner does. There is no shortage of pharmacists in the UK. Yet we have the invasion of european pharmacists who can barely speak english. Meaning that wages are suppressed.

Farage is a hero and should be knighted. He is a true supporter of the working man and women. A reduction in house prices will be no bad thing - they are grossly overpriced.

I'd prefer no deal. And I'd refuse any divorce bill. Let the people who want to be part of this dodgy club pay for it!

xxyzz Wed 13-Jun-18 01:34:39

truckdrive - well, I hope you're right and that Brexit does bring your family jobs and increased pay, rather than, as I suspect more generally, fewer jobs and lower profits hence less pay. And a wholesale removal of workers' rights.

xxyzz Wed 13-Jun-18 01:38:17

But can you not see that what worries me is that your job as a truck driver and many other jobs are based on international trade. Britain is not self-sufficient.

In order to trade internationally, we need as few barriers to that trade as possible. The harder and more expensive we make trading with other countries, the less likely it is to happen, and the poorer we all get.

truckdrive Wed 13-Jun-18 01:41:55

xxyzz - fundamentally you will still need fuel, food and other basics. So I doubt I'll be out of work anytime soon. Wages are what they are - and if the market is fair I can live with that. I chose to do my job. However if you were to go to an RDC (massive warehouse) and had to sit in the waiting room it's rare to here english being spoken now.

And it has nothing to do with a lack of British drivers. The industry tried lying and saying there was a shortage. The government asked the DVLA who told them there were more than enough people with the qualifications - it was just that few would work for the pay and conditions being offered.

Eddie Stobarts are a well known transport company - getting a licence isn't cheap. The job does require some skill. Due to the invasion wages on days are a whopping sub £9/hour. They have used European labour (and I don't blame the drivers - they are doing what's best for them) to decimate the industry. But it's lead to a huge rise in bridge strikes and accidents. Stobarts now need to self insure due to this.

Monday55 Wed 13-Jun-18 01:46:00

Brexit is a short term loss but a long term gain. How do you think countries like canada, Switzerland, new Zealand, Australia etc survive ?

UK is a huge economy and it will do just fine after the storm passes!

isthissummer Wed 13-Jun-18 01:54:02

I thought after today there were more barriers to a hard Brexit than there were before? Albeit the government scraped through and yet more stuff has been kicked down the kerb for a while.
Either way I think Brexit is a total disaster waiting to happen which is why we are out of the U.K. for the next few years and if it goes as I fear will not return.
I think the boiled frog analogy is why it is getting so little attention.

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