To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

There absolutely must be control and knowledge over when our home grown terrorists do and should be able to travel both in and out and within EU

What does being a member of the EU have to do with making terrorists commit crimes. We are a member of the EU and it was easier to track. Leaving the EU will make it harder as we are walking away from international cooperation.

Leaving other EU insitituions like the EMA will make medicines more expensive for us. Not sure voters realise the wider implications.

In fact, what should have happened is the electoral commission should have explains exactly what the EU and its institutions do.

To give some people a chance of making an informed choice. Instead we were bombarded with crap fake shitty news which people believed. Clicky links on Facebook leading to plausible websites etc etc.

I spent a long time trying to find out a strong economic argument for leaving the EU one.

I couldn’t.

And yes the referendum was advisory, read the legislation on it.

Soft Brexits - a Brexit In Name Only

This is the most terrifying option. It gives life to UKIP. I may be a leaver but I dont support UKIP and would rather not give it an excuse for existing.

Ironic given some are citing terrorist threats as a reason to harden borders in the first place. Another Brexit paradox.

Not really. It's an example where the needs of northern island might be different from the needs of the UK. It may be the compromise is a soft border between NI and Ireland but then a hard border between NI and UK. Self determination on immigration matters should mean the freedom to decide this

Leave means leaving EU agencies such as the EMA, ECHA and EASA because leave means leave doesn't it ?

Debatable. In the run up to the referendum there was alot of arrogance and assumptions. "They need us more than we need them." "The easiest trade deals in human history". There was an assumption that the UK could just pick and choose the best bits of EU membership. The EU has stood firm and the UK has its tail firmly between its legs.

It may be the compromise is a soft border between NI and Ireland but then a hard border between NI and UK

Have you told the DUP? Y'know the party propping up the government?

Self determination on immigration matters should mean the freedom to decide this

You already could.

Bring it on, will be over the moon

I'm not really talking about it because I find it too depressing. I can't see any positive way through this, but I can't really see a way out either. I feel like we're on a runaway train, waiting for the inevitable crash. It will be devastating, but I'm burying my head in the sand because I can't bear to think about it. I know that probably isn't the right approach but it's the only way I can cope right now.

If I do think about it, I feel an odd mixture of fury, bitterness, powerlessness and despair. It's easier not to think about it.

I have to say I really do not understand the hysteria surrounding 'planes not being able to fly'. Do you really think the Government would actually let this happen?

Regarding driving licences - even if the EU decided not to accept UK licences, people could apply for an IDP (International Driving Permit). This is already required in many countries of the world who do not recognise UK licences; indeed, it was not that long ago that Spain agreed to recognise them. Although we were in the EU, an IDP was required for Spain.

The problem with Brexit is that the leave campaign and some of their voters have used a marginal victory in an advisory referendum in order to force through an agenda that wasn't on the ballot.

As we can see from this thread, many of the arguments for leave are confused too. Previous posters have talked about the EU being controlled by Germany, David Cameron not being offered a good deal etc, which is just all incorrect.

The EU is not "controlled" by Germany and the UK does not have its interests denied, the UK has been on the losing side of votes on only 2% of occasions since 1999.

Cameron was offered almost everything he went to the EU for, and the UK already had the best deal of any EU country, but he was only not allowed to get a break on FOM of Labour. Portraying it as a loss with the EU treating the UK badly is entirely erroneous, but politically expedient.

EU immigration doesn't have a major effect on wages, if it did it would be statistically evident, and it isn't. The Bank of England study has been held up by leavers as an example of the effects, but it actually shows the opposite of what they claim. Its also subject to regional variation! So areas with low levels of EU immigration are effected at an even lower level.

"I'm not racist but..." then go on to describe immigration using negative and aggressive langauge, some of you make references to "Enoch being right" and then complain that some leaver positions are being called racists and xenophobic?

Make hyperbolic and erroneous arguments and then complain that people think some leave voters are stupid?

"Do you really think the Government would actually let this happen?"

A no deal scenario means exactly that! Would mean no deal had been put in to replace the EU Open skies act.

The how do other countries cope? Well as Switzerland was mentioned Switzerland is part of the EEA and follows single market rules, and contributes to the EU.

The others are part of trade blocs with countries geographically close to them.

Self determination on immigration matters should mean the freedom to decide this
You already could.

A harder border in NI would not be the deciding factor in whether I vote for on going EU control. It might be for others and I can entirely see why, But not for me. I have already said this.

Final bit before I go do some work.

Much of the leave campaing focused on taking back control, but then a lot of leave supporters and their press don't seem to like it.

British Judges make rulings based on British law, they get called traitors.

The HOL makes ammendments to bills, under the terms of parliamentary democracy and gets attacked.

MPs that try to do their jobs as part of a representative British democracy are attacked in the press and social media and sent death threats.

It seems Democracy and sovereignty is great, but only when it agrees with leave voters.

Me can’t wait to be rid

The eu have consistently shown they can’t run a piss up in a brewery

Also the middle class and consistently shown their contempt for the rest of the uk

I actually heard an MP say on the radio
Democracy should be ignored if it hurts it’s population who decided what gets ignored then after a democratic vote let me guess the middle classes

Frightening sounds like something from Zimbabwe or some tin pot republic

I wonder what would happen is Mrs sturgon decided staying in the uk hurt it’s people and left regardless of the fact the Scots voted to stay
We have votes for a reason if you hate democracy their there’s alway Isis they love a dictatorship

A harder border in NI would not be the deciding factor in whether I vote for on going EU control. It might be for others and I can entirely see why, But not for me. I have already said this.

Good for you but your decision affects 5 million people on the island of Ireland and threatens the GFA. If you voted for Brexit you voted for division and the potential break up of the UK.

topcat1980

It was the largest ever turn out to vote in history.

Well over a million and a half people voted to leave.

I would not call that marginal by any stretch of the imagination.

@French2019 I feel the same, except incandescent with rage, whenever I try to discuss it. The red mist descends when I think of how me, my family, my friends, this country have been so royally fucked over. A long, bleak tunnel ahead.

I would not call that marginal by any stretch of the imagination.

There was 4% between leave and remain. That is marginal.

The second part of my post disappeared. Well over a million and a half people voted to leave in comparison to those that voted to remain.

It was not even close.

And It clearly was not marginal!

LittleLionMansMummy

And that is what I see in remainers everywhere this inability to think and behave rationally. Even now.

Have you thought you might need help?

I actually heard an MP say on the radio
Democracy should be ignored if it hurts it’s population

Which is exactly what Brexiteers are supporting. Parliament is all about democracy, it is the embodiment of our country’s democracy.

We vote for MPs. MPs who represent us in Parliament. The House of Lords acts as a check on that, to make sure that Parliaments thinks carefully about what it is doing. The House of Lords can be overruled by the House of Commons - and it has happened before and is again. It’s not the final say.

Brexiteers want to ride rough shod all over it. Because they don’t like it.

The EU referendum was advisory. the vote was incredibly close and evidence is coming to light that the election was most likely interfered with so we don’t know what the true result would have been. That is not democracy.

That is what is scary about this whole thing.

Brexiteers are holding on to the EU referendum because it gives them the veneer of legitimacy. The Tories are clinging on to it, not because they truely believe it’s best. Europe is the issue which divides the party. The only reason they all toe the line is because they like power and are disciplined. Party good above the country.

I have not seen any sensible argument about why this is a good thing. Not one. I’m looking for one because I would like the reassurance that we will not continue to spiral into a long term recession. Businesses and institutions are leaving the UK.....

I see leavers can't address the key issues - sorting NI, the impact assessments making us all poorer, open skies etc.

4 per cent is not marginal we will have to agree to disagree.

4 per cent actually amounts to millions of votes.

Many more wanted to leave but were too afraid to vote anything other than remain, as was the case with lots of my friends. They have businesses /houses etc, but now can see that doomsday did and will not arrive. Most are quite happy that we are leaving.

I haven't seen anyone address the bottom line that the EU are moving towards a superstate complete with (unelected) EU parliament and army etc. We know this, because they are quite open about their vision. Macron would also see banking and finance streamlined into the same vision.

So you would like us to continue in that form?

Summer

care to address the governments own impact assessment reports? How about financial jobs moving overseas. JLR shifting jobs? What does doomsday look like to you, given that we haven't even left yet?

Also the —middle class— Tory party and its austerity policies and consistently shown their contempt for the rest of the uk

Fixed it for you.

who decided what gets ignored then after a democratic vote let me guess the middle classes

Did you not realise the UK is a representative democracy and not a direct democracy?