To wonder how many of you are ready for hard Brexit, after today's Common's vote?

[flibbertyfive]

Because that's what's now happening, very soon.

PS According to the civil servants I know, it will be utter chaos - there has been literally basically no preparation for this at all. Because the bloody politicians can't make up their minds for what they want/expect to happen. So there are no contingency plans whatsoever.

Hope you're happy and looking forward to the chaos if you voted for Leave.

I would imagine that most of those who voted Brexit and also most of those who didn't both want a fairer society with more jobs, more affordable housing, better pay, more money for the NHS.

But not only do we not need Brexit for any of these, Brexit will actively harm them (with the possible exception of cheaper houses - though I think they were probably due for a reset anyway as they'd just reached ludicrous levels).

As a nation, we can campaign/vote for these without needing to kneecap our international trade to get them.

Immigration is more complex, because there it is certainly more split between those who think immigration is basically positive or definitely negative.

But even here, we can control immigration within the EU far more than we do currently, we don't have to leave the EU to bring about change. And as May has conceded, leaving the EU won't bring about the reduction in immigration that was hoped for anyway.

I am a remainer but I am also shocked at the treatment of the uk by the EU - I certainly hope all the member states take note, as how they behave sets a precedence for any future EU departures - and there are several EU countries whose electorates are questioning their membership.

Brexit has already cost the country more than £2bn and it hasn’t even happened yet.
(Source: JPMorgan & thé House of Commons Library)

Not all those, who voted for Brexit want that fairer society and equality unfortunately. The rest of my family from what I can tell voted for what I would describe as borderline racist reasons. I voted remain precisely because I see us as better off in. It’s not our membership, which is broken in this instance but the way of governing our country. Ie running everything to the ground.

I guess if it doesn't work out we could apply to rejoin.

The UK voted to leave the EU.

We are leaving the EU, so I am not sure why the shock and horror is playing out on here. We have all had years to get used to the idea that we as a country are leaving.

The UK will be just fine don't be puffed into project fear 2.

We live in a democracy, and that above all else takes priority for without that we have truly lost everything.

I hope you enjoy the benefits of Brexit on your job and family, truck!

Two of mine have been made redundant due to Brexit and one has had to do a rapid career change as the field they were just finishing their degree in was heavily EU funded.

But yay for less foreign workers, eh?

I think for a lot of people who voted Brexit didn’t realise how inextricably linked to the EU we are and how much simpler life is with those links. Goods and services at borders currently flow very smoothly. In a no deal scenario they will be choked. Some rules need to be applied to them but what?

I think much of the Brexit vote was a poke in the eye for the establishment. Most importantly the government but also against other people who were part of the intellectual elite who are mostly remain voters. You’ve been enjoying relative wealth while ignoring underfunding in public services and the impact on traditional jobs.
The EU was less of an issue for many people that those things. Anger at the EU was almost a distraction a common enemy perhaps.

I think you are right that the state of the Brexit negotiations means

Ready for it and resigned to it.

MN might be largely populated by Remainers, but that's not typical - more people voted for Leave (just like more people voted Tory) and it is what is going to happen. The delaying and spoiling tactics are just lading to a worse deal than we might otherwise have had a chance of getting, or indeed getting no deal at all.

That there will probably be chaos on day one and is difficult how we from there to a stronger or even equal position even in five years time.

My theory is that people have realised that getting the government to change things is not going to happen, so they found someone else to blame for everything that is wrong with the UK.

I think there’s a lot of truth in that Roseacre.

I honestly don't think Brexit is going to happen, but for those of a nervous disposition, be warned, it is probably going to go down to the wire

By the way Europe changed the rules re using outside labour to depress local wages so that argument is null and void.
Land rover is closing Solihull by stealth (the electric car thing is way off in the future and unlikely to happen). Many other businesses are going the same way.
Brexit will be terrible for this country.
Democracy ate itself.
No one won - we all lost.

fib tbh I've lost track of the whole thing. I did consider taking a day off work yesterday to watch the Brexit news as it rolls in, but I barely saw any in the end.
Whatever I say isn't going to make any difference now.
I'm financially hunkering down and hoping for the least worst outcome next spring. I expect it's going to be a bloody mess for a while.

Really Frumpety? Won’t there be fighting on the streets if no Brexit. Also will the EU let us go back on our Art 50 letter even if we avoid revolution?

I don't think it will happen, the government must know if we get a hard brexit and that country then gets fucked that there'd be civil unrest on a scale not seen before.

The govt are preparing for some kind of disorder - why do you think they are suddenly being nice to the police.
Personally I think it will be worse when/if brexit happens and on a more sustained basis.Remember the young, on the whole, don't want this.

poster GhoulWithADragonTattoo Wed

Why do you suppose you know why people voted brexit?

It is a staggering miscalculation on your part to assume they didn't know that we have huge links with the EU. That much is obvious to anyone surely.

More over it is those very links that encouraged most people to vote for brexit, because they wish to have an independent country that makes its own decisions. Every decision made in the EU is now made by only one country and that is Germany. It is not a democracy any longer and hasn't been for some time.

Without wishing to give you a history lesson, this is deeply uncomfortable and worrying for many. When the EU was born, it was at that point an integrated platform that had a voice for all for the nations that were signed up. It was small but inclusive and encouraged peace and prosperity. All good.

Since then it has exploded into a huge undemocratic monolithic super state that has gone way beyond its reach in terms of making decisions for other countries, and taking away power from member countries, this happened by stealth. The EU now encroaches into every part of its member countries including setting budgets and virtually running their finances. (i.e. Greece and others)

The EU is marching straight towards becoming a huge super state with a parliament, army and the rest with Berlin at the helm.

Ask brexit voters why they voted brexit they may tell you that they could see the vision the EU have and the future, they watch Germany allow millions of economic migrants into the EU without a single debate or discussion with other leaders which was hugely disrespectful.

We watched on as Germany tore into Greece and others as it became stricken by the global recession.

We watched on as Merkel smirked at Cameron and ignored the wishes of the British people to allow an orderly and fair immigration system.

We watched on as thousands upon thousands of people from all over the EU pitched up and took our jobs and houses, but to be fair we were nice and polite about it.

We watched on as the unelected Junker staggered from one drunken lunch to another all the while we were paying with our taxes to be laughed at by him as our democracy was slowly being torn into tiny pieces.

We decided enough was enough.

It is my view that any price we pay is a price worth paying to leave the decaying, undemocratic and damaging EU.

remember the leave vote was only 4% more than remain and quite a few of those were protest votes against the government.

If we are going to leave we need to build up the infrastructure we'll need. As mentioned upstairs more customs staff will be needed, more importers will be needed to deal with the increased paperwork.

Remember the young, on the whole, don't want this

That’s interesting - because 95% of the protesters outside parliament yesterday were middle aged women. ( certainly the ones shown on the news )

Where are all these young angry remainers?
I never seem to see any?

Fighting on the streets ? I very much doubt it , it not happening will happen in Winter , we as a country very much prefer our riots in the summer, a rather sensible choice given how clothing has a tendency to chaff when cold and wet

The fact that the likes of Jacob rees Mogg and Nigel Farage, who are hardly representative of the uk population, support Brexit terrifies me.

And do you know why?

Because they want to strip us of our rights as citizens and workers. Things like human rights and workers rights. Minimum wage, annual leave, all of it.

Its a nice cover “let us be in control”, “take back control”...... yes, because they don’t like the fact that the EU actually has done so much good.

Look at Theresa May. She talked about wanting to put workers on boards (she scrapped the idea), about helping the “just about managing (she’s scrapped all that now).

That’s why I’m so fearful for Brexit.

It will take at least a generation to stabilise afterwards. And during that time, children’s lives will be screwed.