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To wonder how males are allowed to compete and win in female sports

(390 Posts)

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Bambambini Mon 06-Mar-17 21:56:20

NZ weight lifter Tracey Lebrechts has had her nationsl records broken and her place in the National team taken by a male Laurel Hubbard - previously Gavin. How is this fair and just why is this allowed?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/nz-weightlifting-body-stands-decision-let-first-transgender-weightlifter-compete

CrossCountryRunner Mon 06-Mar-17 22:23:04

Outrageous. I work in sport in a voluntary capacity (athletics).

This does not make a level playing field. Born a man? Compete with men.

Have you heard of Lauren Jeska?

mickeysminnie Mon 06-Mar-17 22:25:01

Outrageous!

glenthebattleostrich Mon 06-Mar-17 22:25:06

Because biology no longer matters apparently. It's all about feelings now, reality must be suspended.

As I said on another thread, it's bullshit and we just need to start saying no. Just no, we don't accept this. NO.

Chartreuse45 Mon 06-Mar-17 22:31:17

I screen grabbed this from Wikipedia, so it might not be a 100%true but . . . This is from Renee Richards. She transed at 41 and went on to win various tennis competitions.

ZilphasHatpin Mon 06-Mar-17 22:33:45

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MadMags Mon 06-Mar-17 22:36:45

Because the world has gone fucking mad and women are expected to pay the price.

JapabSharted Mon 06-Mar-17 22:40:01

Are you fecking kidding me? WEIGHTLIFTING???

The poor woman whose place he stole.
The only consolation is that this will peak trans so many people.

How many sports is this now? Cycling, fell running, weightlifting, golf?

JapabSharted Mon 06-Mar-17 22:40:43

That's right - tennis too

HobblingHelen Mon 06-Mar-17 22:40:51

YANBU. Things would be very different if men were being disadvantaged by all this but women are expected just to shut up and take it in the name of 'equality' :-(

Honeybee79 Mon 06-Mar-17 22:43:20

Appalling. Yanbu.

Gingernaut Mon 06-Mar-17 22:44:49

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/fell-runner-lauren-jeska-admits-attempted-knife-murder-of-britis/

The allegation is that this fella showed up to the stadium with knives after his victim started to investigate whether his transgender status affected his performance and if so, the titles he'd earned would be stripped away.

Jellybellyqueen Mon 06-Mar-17 22:49:14

Even when men want to be women, they can't help acting like men.hmm
(a general statement, obviously)

Gingernaut Mon 06-Mar-17 22:52:54

Hormone levels and passport checks.

I have PCOS with an elevated testosterone level.

Does that mean I could pass as a bloke?

A small, very weedy, little bloke with very feminine features?

CrossCountryRunner Mon 06-Mar-17 22:55:09

The allegation is that this fella showed up to the stadium with knives after his victim started to investigate whether his transgender status affected his performance and if so, the titles he'd earned would be stripped away.

This

Honeybee79 Mon 06-Mar-17 22:58:39

Gingernaut I also have PCOS with elevated testosterone and would also make a v small weedy looming bloke with a rather pathetic beard if I abandoned the waxing . . .

ladyballs Mon 06-Mar-17 23:00:46

YANBU.

Fallon Fox.

Gingernaut Mon 06-Mar-17 23:01:29

I shave once a day. The perils of PCOS and peri-menopause......hmm

CrossCountryRunner Mon 06-Mar-17 23:03:54

I noted that Lauren Jeska was banged up in Foston Hall. A female prison?!!!

She should be in a male jail. Don't care if she is pre or post op they were born a man.

Just cheats.

CrossCountryRunner Mon 06-Mar-17 23:06:48

Gingernaut

You aren't competing in the field of elite sport though!

Gingernaut Mon 06-Mar-17 23:12:42

True enough.

It seems ridiculous that artificially suppressed hormones and the declaration "I'm a laydee!", allows a competitive sportsman to become a competitive sportswoman.

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog Mon 06-Mar-17 23:35:00

Actually, Ginger (fellow PCOS sufferer here), the levels for blood testosterone in women competitors are set to take account of PCOS. IIRC (this is from memory), for women without PCOS, levels are about 1.5nmol per litre. They're about 2.5 for women with PCOS. The upper allowed limit is (was - not sure what it currently is, following the Duttee Chand case) 10nmol. Men typically have levels anywhere between 10 and 30 nmol per litre (so between 4 and 12 times greater than even a woman with PCOS).

The Duttee Chand case was interesting. NB this is to do with being intersex, not trans (no matter how much the trans rights movement tries to coopt and appropriate the medical histories of intersex people, they shouldn't be.) Chand is thought to have complete androgen insensitivity, meaning that although her body produces male levels of testosterone, it lacks the receptors, and so doesn't build male type musculature as a result. She campaigned not to have to take androgen blockers on this basis, and won, I think. The problem was that this then opened the way for other intersex athletes with only partial androgen insensitivity (i.e raised testosterone and the ability to build patterns of musculature which are more typically male) to argue that they shouldn't have to suppress their testosterone levels either. The end result of this was that women who are almost certainly intersex took gold, silver and bronze in last summer's Olympic 800m final.

Now imagine what happens when a transwoman athlete comes along and says "well, so and so who's intersex doesn't have to reduce her testosterone levels, so why should I?" (There is a case already going through the courts in Canada on this basis, brought by a transwoman cyclist). It's basically the end of women's sport.

MrsTerryPratchett Mon 06-Mar-17 23:51:05

Honestly the more I hear about this the more I think, why the hell did anyone bother dealing with the East German doping in the 70s. Let's all just let everyone have any level of testosterone. At least then a women might win once in a while.

Sex is actually important in sports. Not gender. Sex. And particularly in sports where height and/or strength are defining features.

TumbleTrans Mon 06-Mar-17 23:57:43

In before accusations of transphobia start...

Other than that, YANBU.

thenightsky Tue 07-Mar-17 00:01:42

Cheats. That's all.

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