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This puts me off Girl Guides.

(677 Posts)
NormaStanleyFletcher Thu 19-Jan-17 07:29:33

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.

With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.

You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.

I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

notyourmummy Thu 19-Jan-17 07:31:38

Seems like a very honest, full and sensible response to me.

abbsisspartacus Thu 19-Jan-17 07:33:16

Are they talking about the staff or the children? I wouldn't want a man identifying as a woman sleeping with my daughter on residential or a child actually

When I was in something similar to guides the staff did not share rooms or facilities but that reads like they will

RedHelenB Thu 19-Jan-17 07:34:33

Boys and girls stay together on residential events at school so I dont really see the issue. Up tp the guide leaders to sort out sleeping arrangements.

AlreadyGone Thu 19-Jan-17 07:41:55

There was a thread about this very issue a few weeks ago. I didn't participate but I'm not sure it went well.

But I agree with you OP. I had been intending to out DD's (7) name down for brownies but won't know.

If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader

So if a man says he identifies as a woman and wants to be a Guide leader and share accommodation with the girls, that's all hunky dory and the parents won't be told. hmmshock

The issues @RedHelenB is that when you send your child to a co-ed school you are fully aware of the situation. What the Girl Guides are planning is a kind of a subterfuge of men and boys entering what many are assuming to be an all-girl environment.

charlestonchaplin Thu 19-Jan-17 07:50:37

I do not agree with this change but I'm pretty sure the adult leaders have separate rooms from the children. It does seem that trans-girls will be fully integrated if that is their wish.

Fairyflaps Thu 19-Jan-17 07:51:40

When boys and girls stay together on residential events at my children's schools, there are separate male and female dorms, each supervised by teaching staff of the same sex.
It's a shame that guiding no longer exists as a solely female space for girls. This space has been important in showing pre-teen and teenage girls that they can be agents for change, and they've been involved in some great campaigns such as against sexual harassment in schools, no more page 3, and reclaim the internet - campaigns they would be less likely to publicly engage in in a mixed sex environment, like most secondary schools.
If anyone - members or leaders - has wanted an mixed sex space, scouts has been mixed sex for several years.

Trifleorbust Thu 19-Jan-17 07:55:36

There was a thread about this this week already. Sorry but you are not entitled to know about the difficulties faced by another child and it would be a data protection issue if they told you. If you don't like this policy, remove your daughter.

Isadora2007 Thu 19-Jan-17 07:55:55

The point is that someone who is transgendered doesn't want a mixed space either but identifies as female so is gravitating towards the GG for females only. As a female.

I find it absolutely gob smacking that grown adults can actually think that someone would go through all the heartache and hassle and risk their safety, their friendships and family rejection just on the off chance that they see a girl guide or brownie guide in their pants.
You are all being Very Unreasonable and horrible.

Trifleorbust Thu 19-Jan-17 08:02:25

Isadora2007: It will get worse than this. These threads are usually started by really zealous, bigoted types, not genuinely worried parents.

thethoughtfox Thu 19-Jan-17 08:03:52

Trifleorbust , I read the post as concern not about trans children but about the adults supervising them and potentially sleeping in the same tent and being there when they are changing.

DeathStare Thu 19-Jan-17 08:03:52

Not this again. hmm

OptimisticSix Thu 19-Jan-17 08:04:43


There was a thread about this this week already. Sorry but you are not entitled to know about the difficulties faced by another child and it would be a data protection issue if they told you. If you don't like this policy, remove your daughter

THIS and what Isadora2007 said. I have boys and I would like to think there would be some acceptance at least if they ever transgendered. I also have two girls in GG and feel glad they are in an organisation that practises acceptance.

Strongmummy Thu 19-Jan-17 08:05:54

Ffs. There's already been a hateful transphobic post on this exact subject. Give it a rest.

feelingAncient Thu 19-Jan-17 08:05:57

I've always thought the guides were ridiculous the scouts let girls in even if they don't identify as a boy because other wise they are called sexists. Yet the guides don't allow any boys in and people complain about have trans gender girls in the group!

Trifleorbust Thu 19-Jan-17 08:06:52

thethoughtfox: I didn't. 'Fully female environment' is the OP's expectation. And obviously to her, transgirls and women aren't female so both would be included in her 'problem'.

AChickenCalledKorma Thu 19-Jan-17 08:08:03

It sounds like a very reasonable statement. But I do wonder whether "some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation" applies to all the other girls as well as the one that is still physically male. I would hope that leaders are allowed to work with all the young people to find a solution that everyone feels comfortable with.

StarkintheSouth Thu 19-Jan-17 08:08:45

I was a Brownie and a Guide and in away trips leaders never slept in the same room as us.

LockieS Thu 19-Jan-17 08:08:51

It's talking about adults. Staff. NOT children.

A grown arse man, who looks like a man, talks like a man, dresses like a man and is a bloody man can come along and say "yeah I feel like a woman".....and boom you have to give him access to your daughters toilets, sleeping space at residentials, access you'd would never in a million years give a "man". But he isn't a man. Because he feels like a woman. Amazing

Trifleorbust Thu 19-Jan-17 08:10:13

LockieS: Norhing reductive about that at all hmm

morningtoncrescent62 Thu 19-Jan-17 08:10:32

To my mind, the really sad, shocking and off-putting development in Girl Guiding is the new uniform - but their trans guidance seems fine to me.

titchy Thu 19-Jan-17 08:11:28

Scouts let girls join because their numbers were plummeting.

This is your daughters new Guide Leader. Happy?

Headofthehive55 Thu 19-Jan-17 08:12:31

Adults have separate sleeping arrangement. When I was a guide leaders husbands often helped out, as they were useful for digging latrines etc!

Bibblewanda Thu 19-Jan-17 08:13:52

Not transphobic. Don't want men with penises pretending they are women. They are not.

Groovee Thu 19-Jan-17 08:15:09

Some units do have male helpers. They cannot make their promise and cannot fully join girlguiding the way I, as a brownie leader can!

It's not fully all female in some units!

GG are just making sure they have fully researched and then put policies in place in the name of inclusion and diversity.

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