This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.



With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.



You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.



I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

[Italiangreyhound]

Bambambini a year or two ago I would have said the same.

I'll pm you.

[Bambambini]

I used to think the same and argue the point that transwomen were women, had female brains, were trapped in the wrong body, any naysayers were biggots etc.

Then i actually started thinking about it and looking into what each side were saying. i'm not alone.

[Italiangreyhound]

I've had a real life conversation with a good friend on this topic and she is not worried about her daughter going to a camp and there being a a boy in her daughter's tent. She thinks the Guide leaders sleep in there, I don't even know if they do because I never worried before.

She doesn't see the problem.

I hope it is temporary but it has changed how I feel about her! She has a good job and is supposedly smart but she sees no problem at all with letting males in if they think they are girls.

And I am getting fucking sick of people involved in Scouts telling me how Scouts have taken girls for years and it is good that now Girl Guides is taking boys. Totally missing the point that trans activists and trans women would be horrified to think that GG was taking boys, they are taking girls, dammit, trans girls.

I fucking knew when Scouts started taking girls it would be the death knell for Guides, I just had an idea it would happen.

I am so glad dd has got a bit fed up with Guides. DH is still hoping she will continue going.

[Datun]

foot

Does it not bother you even the smallest that it is being made illegal for women and girls to gather together together without the presence of a man if that man wants to be there?

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

Maybe Fool's point is that young girls should be expected to deal with Paedophiles?
It's not clear.

[BertrandRussell]

"So, reading this, basically it boils down to transgender people are all paedophiles and young girls can't be expected to deal worh them being in the world?"

If you've read the thread but still sum it up like that then I can't see the point in carrying on the conversation,

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

transgender people are all paedophiles
I'm not sure that anyone except you has said that fool

[Italiangreyhound]

Originalfoogirl your post makes no reference to the fact that Girl Guides was an organisation segregated by sex and was for girls and no longer is. Don't you think that is unfair. Don't you think girls deserve some time away from males? Have you got any daughters?

Do you think being female should be designated not on who is female but on who feels female? What does that mean? Feel free not to answer, no one else has been able to.

In Guides now the girls will share tents and sleeping and washing spaces with trans girls (who have had no formal assessment) they are just biological boys who say they identify as girls.

These trans girls will be consulted about where they would like to sleep, while the girls will not be consulted or even told that anyone not female is sleeping in their tent. If this is OK why don't schools have mixed sex sleeping arrangements?

If we say a boy (who is not female) gets to determine what makes up a female then we are saying that 'being female' is essentially an idea in a boy's head. Not periods, and potential pregnancy, and being generally physically smaller and therefore weaker, not able to give birth, all things present in my 12 year old dd and not present in my next door neighbour's 12 year old son.

You may find it is OK to allow a young boy to define what makes you female but I don't.

I am watching Scooby Doo with my son now. Shaggy just said...

"I am feeling a lot of things right now and safe isn't one of them!"

Never thought I would say it but I agree with Shaggy.

[Bambambini]

Originalfoot

Actually clearly it boils down to gaslighting and misleading children that people can change sex and you have to accept this delusion. Would we go along with this if someone insisted that everyone accept them as being black or Chinese - even if they are white? Or as disabled even if yhey aren't? What if someone ids as God?

[titchy]

So, reading this, basically it boils down to transgender people are all paedophiles and young girls can't be expected to deal worh them being in the world?



Clearly you HAVEN'T read the thread because it is categorically NOT about that.

[Originalfoogirl]

So, reading this, basically it boils down to transgender people are all paedophiles and young girls can't be expected to deal worh them being in the world?

I'd have thought an organisation which prides itself on inclusion and breaking down barriers is the perfect place to have these issues introduced.

If your daughter is uncomfortable being around a man who identifies as a woman then it's up to you to educate her. Teach here there are all sorts of people in the world and nobody should be judged because of their lifestyle.

If you think the best way to deal with it is to refuse to let your child take part, that's a sad indictment of the world today.

Girl guide leaders are checked and double checked. There is little risk. Teach your child what is appropriate behaviour for any person (male, female, trans, adult, child, whatever) to display towards them and what they need to do if something happens which breeches those boundaries.

By refusing to let them experience the world and everyone in it, rather than teaching them how to stay safe, you are putting them more at risk. They will only look for danger in those areas you deem "weird" when the truth is, anyone could be the person who harms them.

[Italiangreyhound]

WickedLazy I am sorry to hear of your experiences.

You may find this article a little triggering or you may feel you had a narrow escape. You sound very wise and you worked out quick enough how to get out of a damaging relationship and protect yourself.

naefearty.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/gas-mark-six/

[Twistmeandturnme]

A friend of mine has just said elsewhere that her local guide group refused to let her disabled daughter join
If this is true it should be investigated fully. It is completely contradictory to GG policy. Was it just the local Guides group that couldn't/wouldn't accommodate but she was referred elsewhere or did someone just say 'no'. It does sound very odd.

[BertrandRussell]

"A friend of mine has just said elsewhere that her local guide group refused to let her disabled daughter join"

That most certainly needs to be investigated. Don't let your friend let it lie.

[harderandharder2breathe]

beyond that's not gguk policy, they should work with you to include your DD. Either try another unit or raise it with the local district commissioner

[Bettersleepoutdoors]

ageingrunner same here.

[MaryTheCanary]

Sorry, but can I clarify about the CPS issue?

A poster said something about how if the CPS guidelines go through, we will not be able to discuss this on Mumsnet.

Is this true?? What is going on?

[ageingrunner]

He has no shame at all. I don't really want someone who gets off on the "humiliation" of being in women's cloth next to me in the ladies'. Is that unreasonable? I don't want some bloke jizzing in their "panties" in the next cubicle. I'm second guessing myself as to whether I'm being unkind and should just accept that this is what's going to happen from now on.

[WickedLazy]

Looked at that twitter profile. Rang a lot of bells, and then I hit the anal hooking post

[Bambambini]

Kerry Shaw A TW) tweeted to the one female MP who spoke of concerns at Maria Miller's report and the push for self id. Kerry said she didn't feel safe in men's loos so wanted access to women's. If you want an example of what late transitioning fetishists are into - then Kerry is probably a perfect example and is very open about it. Won't post the pictures here.

mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%40kerrywakefield

[Italiangreyhound]

Not just Fox News www.dailywire.com/news/8984/lawsuit-transgender-girl-twerked-grinded-against-amanda-prestigiacomo

[MercyMyJewels]

Is that not acting out porn roles with him in a female role too, so lesbian or 'girl on girl' action?

[WickedLazy]

Yes I found he liked the idea of being used. He was very interested in pegging, which we never did fully, but we explored that area. He also liked me to pick clothes for him, he showed me some stuff he'd bought before, all very "sexy" stuff so I worked off that. When he was his female alter ego, he would try to act very coy, head tilted, big eyes, slight pout, "girly" voice. I started to realise he acted more like a little girl than a woman at times, which was an... odd realisation (iyswim).
He also wanted me to humiliate him in various ways, so he could get off on it, but that was a step too far for me. Through the whole relationship, I never met the one female friend he claimed was very supportive of his "cross dressing", that lived far from him (and he lived quite far from me) but when we broke up, "she" started texting me, so I think he also had at least one imaginary friend.

[MaudOnceMore]

The guide unit should have worked with your friend to make sure they were capable of meeting her daughter's needs and enabling her to participate. That's longstanding policy. Did they say why she couldn't join?

[BeyondCanSeeTheEmperorsBellend]

I apologise if this has already been mentioned, I haven't caught up with the thread...

A friend of mine has just said elsewhere that her local guide group refused to let her disabled daughter join. But now a man/boy is fine.

It is beyond fucking parody