This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.



With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.



You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.



I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

[Trifleorbust]

bepenised people

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

feeling

I've always thought the guides were ridiculous the scouts let girls in even if they don't identify as a boy because other wise they are called sexists. Yet the guides don't allow any boys in and people complain about have trans gender girls in the group!

Not that its the point of the thread, but the above is completely incorrect

[titchy]

Titchy - the thread is about leaders, not girl guides. 

The policy being discussed on this thread refers to both members AND leaders.

[Trifleorbust]

Women don't need to accept anything. Men need to accept that they don't get to define what a woman is.

Nor do you. Consensus will be sought and reached with reference to everyone.

[BertrandRussell]

"I've always thought the guides were ridiculous the scouts let girls in even if they don't identify as a boy because other wise they are called sexists"

That's not what happened.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

I'm getting the impression here that there is an assumption that all transwomen are heterosexual sexual predators. And paedophiles to boot.

Can someone please explain to me why?

[MissSlighcarp]

MissSlighcarp

Yes, they do need to learn to get over their discomfort tbh. Just like women were told to get over their discomfort at sharing with lesbians and men were told to get over their discomfort at sharing with homosexuals.

Mm, because teaching girls to ignore their instincts is a really good way to encourage them to develop good boundaries and keep themselves safe.

So if an 11yo girl starts her period, and feels uncomfortable asking for help from a guide leader who is biologically male, you would tell her to get over herself?

[titchy]

Transboys are female. Are some people getting confused? There is no need to segregate them as far as sleeping or changing facilities,

You're right Charlie - no need segregate them at Guides BECASUE THEYLL BE ASKED TO LEAVE.

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

Rainbow leader here.

We are not staff, we are volunteers, staff get paid, we don't.

Adults do not share rooms with the children (not even with our own children on residentials) we also tend to have a designated leaders toilet. We are also fully DBS checked and do quite a bit of training, including safeguarding. (I have actually done more training for Rainbows than I have as a teaching assistant)

Where possible we make sure the girls are comfortable sharing rooms with each other.

[FirstShinyRobe]

Consensus will be sought and reached with reference to everyone When? And how? And by whom?

[Datun]

A girl deciding to become a trans boy won't want to attend a girl's organisation anyhow so would probably feel it wasn't the right place for her

She may well feel that she was to continue in the guides. The problem is she won't be allowed to. It's not about whether she would like to or not.

Using gender instead of sex to segregate people in the guides will be applied to both. As the criteria has changed from being biologically a woman/girl, to identifying as such. Those who don't identify as such will be excluded. You can't have it both ways. Being 'pro-gender' to include natal born my males, will be anti natal born girls. Completely undermining the basis for the movement.

[Trifleorbust]

FirstShinyRobe: Over time. By everyone.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

MissSlighcarp

I wouldn't "tell her to get over herself", I would find out why she was uncomfortable and help her understand why her fears are unnecessary. I might also consider the option that in that specific circumstance she would need guidance from someone who has experience of periods, which is perfectly understandable, but I assume Guide leaders are not there purely to deal with periods.

[Datun]

And for the poster up thread who suggested removing your daughter if you don't like it and setting up another girls only group. This will happen in that group too. There is no such thing anymore as a female only group. It doesn't exist.

[Sugarlightly]

Can someone give me examples of when a man have posed as a trans woman to gain access to female children?

[Trifleorbust]

I would not want an adult male around my dd however he identifies.

Is this not just misandry? Men are not an automatic threat to your child. What do you do when it's a male teacher, doctor or police officer? If a male fireman (or transwoman for that matter) turned up to carry your DD down the ladder, would you ask him to go back and get a woman?

[picklemepopcorn]

Milk my comments were not about trans women being sexual predators.
They were about sexual predators being able to pose as trans women as the requirement for being called a trans woman is currently being set very low.

A predatory paedophile couple in the states moved from place to place, enrolling the younger of the two as a school student year after year. They used his youthful appearance to access young people in order to abuse them.

Predators infiltrate places where their victims are unprotected. It is what they do. That is why child protection procedures have to be so enormously sledgehammer like and a complete PITA.

[Bibblewanda]

Misandry is not a thing so no, it is not.

Women as a class are oppressed by men, as a class. It is absolutely normal to fear and mistrust your oppressors.

If you think this is over the top and ridiculous you have not yet had your eyes opened.

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

I would not want an adult male around my dd however he identifies.

You do know Guiding already has male helpers that identify as male as well don't you? Has done for years. Lots of schools have male staff too, even all girl's schools. Having a penis does not make someone dangerous to children regardless of how they identify!

[Trifleorbust]

Misandry is not a thing so no, it is not.

Of course it is a a thing. Some women hate and fear men. Sometimes they have a basis for this fear but it is not a rational basis, since not all (or even the majority) of men are a threat to them. I suspect we will not agree on this.

[Trifleorbust]

boopsy: I understand why this might concern you on some level. I also don't think this is where most of the posters here are coming from. The language is too emotive and pejorative for that.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

picklemepopcorn

Do you have any evidence of sexual predators posing as transwomen?

The example you give of a couple is more like a women becoming a Guide leader to gain access to girls and young women. Sexual predators exist and can gain access to people (young or not) without having to go down a transgender route.