This puts me off Girl Guides.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

I always expected Girl Guides to be a fully female environment. And WTF about not telling parents if it isn't?

"Thanks for your email, and taking the time to read our updated equality and diversity policy. If an adult self-identifies as a woman then they are able to undertake all adult roles in guiding including becoming a Leader. This means that they may also, if they wish, make their Promise.



With regards to sleeping arrangements at residential events, it is important to work with the trans individual when organising accommodation rather than making assumptions or arrangements without consulting them. Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided. As membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity (the way a person self-identifies their gender identity), there is no requirement to provide any documentation to evidence their transition. Please also be advised that it is not best practice to tell parents that a trans person will be attending a residential event.



You may find our Let’s Talk about Gender and Gender Identity resources helpful to support any conversations around this topic, should the need arise. At the back of each document, there are also some links to recommended external sources which will also provide some helpful advice on this.



I hope this is of help, but if you have any further queries, please don’t hesitate to get in touch."

[JustAnotherPoster00]

I'm getting the impression here that there is an assumption that all transwomen are heterosexual sexual predators. And paedophiles to boot.

Can someone please explain to me why?

That is the general consensus as far as the FWR threads go, constant trans bashing

[Bibblewanda]

Some women hate and fear men. Sometimes they have a basis for this fear but it is not a rational basis

I'd say that the fact our entire society has been built on the foundation that women are inferior to men is a rational basis, wouldn't you?

[BarbaraofSeville]

Having a penis does not make someone dangerous to children regardless of how they identify

Exactly, and yet we still have male and female toilets and changing rooms. Are people saying this is unnecessay/outdated?

Most women would not want to share changing and toilet facilities with people with penises that identify as men, so how is it different when they identify as women?

[Lottied25]

So here's the thing, I have been a girl guide since I was 7 and am currently a leader with 3 out of the 4 sections. Never once during my training was it stated that leaders where allowed anywhere near bedrooms, toilets, showers etc. on camp while the girls were changing or using them in fact it was made very clear that we aren't allowed to do this. In the case of an emergency situation we have to have 2 leaders there.

I always went on camp with my 2 guide leaders and one of their husbands as our QM. He always had a separate tent/bedroom to even his Mrs as well as different bathroom facilities. Girl guiding has always allowed men to be assistant leaders as sometimes it's the only way to ensure the unit can continue I currently have male (who identifies as male) assistant leader. Without either of these two men the respective units would close.
Furthermore, a transgender man who identifies as woman is considered a woman! Meaning there is no reason why SHE should not join us.
P.s. we're all volunteers who don't get paid please stop calling us staff.

[littleme2017]

Former Guide leader here who has worked with all sections. I guided for 10 years and only left recently

I can confirm that children and leaders have separate changing rooms, toilets and bedrooms.

We once took a dad on camp with us (he had three handful daughters and wanted to offer us his help), he provided his own tent and had access to his own toilets and changing facilities.

At no point, is a leader or other adult EVER left on their own with a child.

[harderandharder2breathe]

Nobody forced Scouts to start accepting girls btw. They chose to because of falling numbers. Girl Guiding hasn't had that problem despite girls being Scouts.

[AuntieStella]

Isabella2007 - good post.

There is far too much transphobia on MN

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Ifitquackslikeaduck

Why do girls need privacy from transgirls but not from girls?

Is it because of the penis?

Chances are they don't want to see their mate's vagina yes I do know that's not technically correct either!

[AuntieStella]

"Exactly, and yet we still have male and female toilets and changing rooms. Are people saying this is unnecessay/outdated?"

See threads passim.

There had been considerable support expressed on MN for all cubicle unisex loos. And this was in context of the education board, and nothing whatsoever to do with transphobia.

[Bibblewanda]

Transphobia = saying a man is a man

Welcome to 1984 all.

[BertrandRussell]

So do people think that there is no need to prepare the other guides for the arrival of a transgirl in their group? I can see that if she has come from another part of the country or something, but if the group already knew her as a boy? Wouldn't it be a good idea to talk about it?

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Bibblewanda - no the transphobia is the accusation (however phrased) that transwomen are sexual predators who want access to young girls and women.

[Sweets101]

I know a man who presents as a man, is a 'cis' man if you will. He is a guide leader (his leader name is Great Tit as Brown Owl was already taken)

[Bibblewanda]

And how do you know that some of them aren't, milk?

[RufusTheSpartacusReindeer]

milk

Sorry have skimmed the thread, who said that all tranwomen are sexual predators?

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

if the group already knew her as a boy? Wouldn't it be a good idea to talk about it?

In this situation yes, we would absolutely talk about it, in an age appropriate way.

[Trifleorbust]

Bibblewanda: We don't know. But it is transphobic to behave as though there is a greater chance of this when someone is trans.

[MrsGWay]

I don't think people are saying all transwomen are sexual predators. They are saying the trans agenda is a trojan horse for sexual predators.

[Trifleorbust]

Anyway, the bottom line is that Guiding is a club, not a right. If your daughters don't like the set up they don't have to go.

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

But can you not see that lots of people don't consider this to be the case and therefore want trans males to be considered like any other male.

Can you not see that many people disagree with that and are quite happy for transwomen to be considered like any other women?

Either stance is opinion rather than fact. And neither will ever agree.

Actually that's not strictly true. My opinion actually changed after reading too many trans threads on here.

[Lottied25]

Ifitquakslikeaduck

It's not yours or anyone else's place to say how someone should identify. Whether you have a Penis or not makes you biologically male or female. Gender is not biological sex it's a choice. If you can't respect other people's life choices then I'm afraid it's you with the problem not GG.

[Foureyesarebetterthantwo]

My experience of Guides is that the leaders are extremely sensible and well-versed in safeguarding so it wouldn't bother me if a transwoman went on a trip with them. I really don't think there's going to be a queue though!

[SparklyUnicornPoo]

Bibblewanda

Because a trans women would undergo the same DBS and referencing checks a cis woman does. Contrary to popular belief we don't just let random people wander in off the streets!