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What is so wrong with Hillary?

(249 Posts)
MarcelineTheVampire Wed 09-Nov-16 19:37:27

I know I know, not another one of these threads but I'm struggling to understand why everyone hates her so much.

I know she has been accused of corruption but nothing has stuck and it doesn't seem to be any worse than her male counterparts- is it because she's a woman?

AIBU to ask you to point me to some facts as to what she has done to be so hated? I'm genuinely interested.

icanteven Wed 09-Nov-16 19:41:22

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with her being a woman.

Trump appealed to the (very real) sense of disenfranchisement of poor, uneducated white people in the US, and pressed all their buttons in the worst possible way. They know that Washington is broken and doesn't give a shit about them, and it was quite evident (and probably true) that Hilary is a part of the Washington establishment. Sadly they forgot that Trump is ALSO a member of the privileged, monied elite that can buy and sell political influence, and his long term success is 100% dependent on upholding the very governmental principles that are keeping those poor, uneducated white people poor and uneducated.

Obv. not EVERYBODY who voted for Trump is poor/uneducated, but that was the base that he really targeted, and won.

I think it is a lesson for Republicans and Democrats alike, that if you ditch the actual PEOPLE of a country in favour of big business, they're going to notice sooner or later.

Caprianna Wed 09-Nov-16 19:43:14

and Trump is not big businessconfused

SaucyJack Wed 09-Nov-16 19:44:24

I dunno that there's much wrong with her. Seems to be more a case that there's nothing much right with her either.

Her main selling point from what (admittedly little) I've read is that she isn't Donald Trump.

MarcelineTheVampire Wed 09-Nov-16 19:44:26

Icanteven I fully agree about being disenfranchised but I fear that it does have some sexist undertones.

I just really struggle with how everyone is saying Hillary is just as bad a Trump, that Trump was the lesser of two evils? I'm just confused- I don't think she's done anything that bad? That I've read anyway- happy to be proved otherwise.

Tinkfromlovejoy Wed 09-Nov-16 19:46:11

These scandals, although not all proven, will give you an outline

There are an equal amount of scandals about Trump of course, I think America had seen it all before with the Clintons though, and thought that Trump was worth a punt. Idk how much him being a bloke had to do with it. Quite a bit I suspect sad

Babypythagorus Wed 09-Nov-16 19:47:41

From the guardian:

Of the one in three Americans who earn less than $50,000 a year, a majority voted for Clinton. A majority of those who earn more backed Trump.

MarcelineTheVampire Wed 09-Nov-16 19:49:11

Tink I think that's my main issue, people are vilifying her for things men have got away with?

MsVestibule Wed 09-Nov-16 19:49:41

marceline I've been wondering the same thing. From what I've read, it's:
Clinton - aloof and sent emails from the wrong server (seriously bad judgement)
Trump - misogynist, admits to sexually assaulting women, racist, terrible businessman (4 bankruptcies, I think?), thinks it's great to avoid paying taxes.
Where's the comparison?

ThornyBird Wed 09-Nov-16 19:50:27

I'm glad you started this thread op.

I have been wondering this all day, is it a lot to do with her being married to Bill Clinton?

papaverorientale Wed 09-Nov-16 19:50:34

From what i've read online, people are furious she is pro-choice because lots of people in the States want abortion abolished full stop. They're furious about what happened in Benghazi and think she left Americans to die there when she had a choice to save them. They consider her corrupt because of the emails, because in their mind it means she has something sinister to hide. They dislike her because they think she's in the pay of the banks and big businesses and would have put them above ordinary American people. And they generally see her as betraying women because she apparently bullied women who were abused by her husband.

Also she talked about shutting down all coal mines and people perceived that she'd take them to war with Russia

I got all that from reading comments on Trump's Facebook page by the way. People absolutely hate her. It really shocked me. It's much more than 'just' misogyny.

Tinkfromlovejoy Wed 09-Nov-16 19:50:59

marceline i know, it's a scary world that makes her accountable for her husbands infidelity.

icanteven Wed 09-Nov-16 19:51:42

I think that her policies got drowned out in a fog of NOT TRUMP NOT TRUMP NOT TRUMP and nobody actually stopped to let the woman speak and set out why you should vote for her for her OWN sake, not on a negative.

I think that over the last few years a segment of American society has cottoned on to the fact that nobody gives a shit about them in Washington though, and voting for Trump was seen as the only possible way out. Jeb Bush wasn't so bad, and he is a dream compared to Trump, but it was fundamentally offensive that there should be Bushes and Clintons in the race at ALL. The Bushes have run America since the 50's, and life has been getting steadily WORSE for Americans since then. Was Clinton going to be much different?

Don't get me wrong, I would have voted for her (in the absence of Sanders on the ballot) but it wasn't a great choice for voters yesterday.

papaverorientale Wed 09-Nov-16 19:52:20

Oh and she wanted gun control. People were terrified she'd take their guns.

icanteven Wed 09-Nov-16 19:53:09

Of the one in three Americans who earn less than $50,000 a year, a majority voted for Clinton. A majority of those who earn more backed Trump.

But in this election, EDUCATION came into play for the first time. Poor people have traditionally voted Dem, but in this election if they were poor AND hadn't been to college, they voted Republican.

Tinkfromlovejoy Wed 09-Nov-16 19:54:14

I also think America was ready for a break from the "dynasty" leadership, Jeb Bush as case in point.

Storminateapot Wed 09-Nov-16 20:01:59

I don't get it either and I do think misogyny had a part to play. For all it's being the supposedly greatest nation on Earth there are some astonishingly uneducated & reactionary opinions amongst some of the populace. We forget that the US was actively and openly oppressing minorities within living memory.

It's a modern and enlightened democracy until you get about half way down.

LC01 Wed 09-Nov-16 20:04:34

The Clintons are very powerful and influential, I've heard that a lot of people working for them go missing or die in weird circumstances. We don't hear most of what goes on over there, only want our press want us to know.

Luckystar1 Wed 09-Nov-16 20:06:56

I'm confused by the constant reference to education. I have to be vague as I have no actual stats, but relative to the size of the US population, only a small minority will surely have attended college. Whatever about how I feel about the outcome, I find it insulting (although I'm not sure why!) that it seems to be constantly reported that the 'uneducated' voted for Trump. That is clearly untrue surely?!

Luckystar1 Wed 09-Nov-16 20:07:53

LC01 seriously?! That's scary!

Blumkin Wed 09-Nov-16 20:10:14

She lacks the trust of the electorate, the best analogy I have heard is imagine Cherie Blair running for president over here...the Blair's are viewed as dodgy, money hungry, corrupt, and out for themselves.

Liara Wed 09-Nov-16 20:13:22

If I had been in the US I would have had trouble voting for Hillary. I wouldn't have voted for Trump, but am not sure I could have dragged myself to the poll to vote for her either.

Firstly, there is the way she treated Lewinsky. It was appalling. Being a similar age to Lewinsky, I instinctively empathise with her.

Secondly, it is the fact that I would hate it for the first female president of the US to be there only because she was the wife of a former president. And I genuinely don't think Hillary would have made it anywhere near the nomination if it wasn't for Bill. I want a woman who is there on her own merits, which I don't feel she is.

Thirdly, there is the feeling that she will do absolutely anything for power. I know that is true of anyone who makes it to the white house, but others seem a lot better at hiding it than her. I don't feel like I have the first clue about what she really thinks about absolutely anything.

And finally, there is the clear contempt with which she treats the discontented, disenfranchised voters who supported Trump. I don't like the way they behave, I don't think it is great for the world but a president needs to be able to relate to and empathise with all the electorate, not just her support base.

papaverorientale Wed 09-Nov-16 20:13:33

I also read that people believe a good numbet of people associated with the Clintons have died or gone missing. I have no idea if there's any truth in it but I guess that enough people believe it's true is what matters.

ElizabethHoney Wed 09-Nov-16 20:17:06

Lots of evidence of corruption, spanning decades. Legally she's got away with it, but politically not. She's also been caught out in major lies, and has a very poor record in office.

Out of all of the presidential candidates in the last few decades, she's the last one I'd vote for. Except for Palin and, well. Trump.

goddessofsmallthings Wed 09-Nov-16 20:22:57

What Blumkin said .

Whilst I'm not entirely happy that Trump has blown the Democrats out of the water, I'm relieved to be spared being lectured by the equivalent of Hodge, Hewitt, and Harperson rolled into one self-aggrandising woman.

I'd also rather hear the sound of fingernails screeching across a blackboard than listen to her foghorn voice.

Imo she's an odious woman for whom obscurity is long overdue

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