What is so wrong with Hillary?

[MarcelineTheVampire]

I know I know, not another one of these threads but I'm struggling to understand why everyone hates her so much.

I know she has been accused of corruption but nothing has stuck and it doesn't seem to be any worse than her male counterparts- is it because she's a woman?

AIBU to ask you to point me to some facts as to what she has done to be so hated? I'm genuinely interested.

I agree with Spare wrt the EC.

Just because an arrangement exists doesn't mean it is eternally right or appropriate or meets needs of modern society. The US Constitution can be amended and has been frequently because adaptation to prevailing conditions makes a stronger body politic.

You voted for racism and sexism even if you voted for HC. She's got just as much of a history as Donald Trump (probably more).

Interesting views on this thread. On the point that Hillary's view have flip flopped, there's nothing wrong with changing your views over time having learned more, taken on board other views and experiences.

Trump is a really worrying choice because he has no experience of holding political office and is a demagogue. It isn't like running your own company.

My hope is that his real beliefs are not as extreme as the bile he has trotted out on the campaign trail.

woo There is when, as Anderson Cooper suggested, you're only changing your views to get votes. You don't just "change your mind" on marriage equality in the space of three years. You don't just change your mind on gun control (whilst being funded by 9 of the top 10 arms manufactures in the world). You don't just change your mind about NATO. If she'd thought "NATO didn't work out as we expected", she wouldn't have just had that realisation in 2016, she would have had it years ago etc.

His views aren't as extreme. He's said he's pro-choice in the past (and I'd believe he is... I think he initially attempted to get the backing of the Republicans with the pro-life thing), he's mentioned nothing about being religious (a change from the normal rhetoric), he's mentioned nothing about marriage equality, aside from saying that it should've been decided by the individual states, the Muslim immigration moratorium is not exclusive to Donald Trump - there are people in my own country advocating the same thing, and then there are the far-right European politicians growing in popularity. Then there's the "wall". Well, back in 2005, Hillary Clinton also supported building a wall along the Mexican border... but she's since reneged on that one and decided she's pro-immigration.

By NATO, I mean NAFTA. Getting my acronyms confused.

He is the first president elect since 1984 not to say "god bless America" in his victory speech .....interesting

If I was in the States I would probably have voted Green. Didn't like either candidate.

Badders Good!

To be completely honest, I think Trump's presidency will go one of two ways. He'll either go down in history as one of the worst presidents of all time: think Andrew Jackson and George W Bush. Or he'll go down as one of the best, if he can manage to restore even some semblance of "the American dream". I think he's capable; it's not as though he just decided in 2015, "Eff it, I'm gonna become President" - he's been sitting on it for at least 36 years. If he can reel in the offensive comments and put his head down and do something, he could be a good change.

I'm trying to cheer myself up Pluto tbh!
I keep trying to think of worse candidates/presidents and I just can't....
Reagan was an actor, true, but he had political experience as governor and the backing of the GOP/conservatives
He was one of the most popular presidents ever - but then again some was Clinton!

Ugh
Feel so so low about all this
I really really hope his campaign was posturing and he said most of what he said to garner votes
Because if not....we are all fucked my friends

Wrt HRC
I would have preferred sanders as candidate
If one thing comes out of this sorry mess I hope it's an end to the bush/Clinton family era!

badders

I think it was mainly posturing

I'm not so sure about that MarcelineTheVampire she pretty much 'got away' with the bloodbaths of Syria, Libya as well as the Honduras coup. Persuading Bill to bomb the fuck out of Serbia in 1999.. There's lots of bodies on her, as they say in "The Wire"

Trump is completely unproven as a politician. He obviously appeals to a large section of the electorate, though not a majority. He is the very definition of a demagogue and has little or no respect for women.

Well yes definitely he is unproven, a total disgrace no doubt and a danger to the worlds economy and stability IMO. Perhaps he's a racist and misogynist in private as well, I really dont know.

But in the previous 2 elections, the American people voted for 'progress' with Obama and feel they got screwed. Now they all turned racist and voted Trump? I don't buy it - I think it's much more a vote for the rejection of the 'more of the same' that you would have undoubtedly got from H Clinton. I don't believe she was rejected because of her gender, I believe it was the prospect of continuity of the endless, useless, unbelievably costly, bloodbaths in far away lands, that benefit the top 1% that she represented, the globalist, neo liberal economic model that actually runs counter to the interests of the working person. This is what lost it for Hillary and the Democrats.

Whether Trump can deliver any change? We'll have to wait and see. I doubt it personally. But it's one of those 'what do we have to lose'? situations, it seems to me.

Sadly already sexist, racist and misogynistic attacks are on the increase in the USA as they are in the uk after the eu ref result.
Those who voted for trump and for brexit must face the fact - FACT - of this
Some very very unsavoury people now think they have a political mandate to behave this way
I would feel very very uneasy if I had voted
For trump or for brexit by the support for both of Putin, le penn, kkk
Very uneasy

Whilst hugely disappointing, I am not in the slightest bit surprised by this result.

Clintons campaign was doomed from the start. It's nothing imo to do with her being a women. And everything to do with an ineffective marketing campaign.

Firstly, know your audience. Clinton was out of touch with a vast majority of Americans and what they wanted. Trump knew who they were, knew what their issues were with life and how to appeal to this. Not all of them were gun-toting, white supremists. Many were ordinary people who felt Clinton and the Democrats just weren't cutting it and they didn't have an alternative.

Secondly, have a compelling message. 'Make America Great Again'.
Forget who's mouth it's coming from, this is inspirational, positive and strong.
'Stronger Together'. Meh. Not particularly original, and a hardly indicative of progression or change.

Thirdly, innovate. Offer a solution to your markets needs that's better than what's currently available.
People wanted change. Above all else, they wanted a better solution to what they had. They didn't want another presidential dynasty or more rising taxes and insurances and more democrats. They wanted change. Whilst a lot of us outside the US think Obama is great, a lot of Americans don't. They think he's weak and they want a strong leader.

Sadly HC just wasn't the right person to pull off another democratic presidency. They could've done, but the message and they way it was delivered didn't appeal enough to the people who ultimately could've changed the game.

If you think the Clinton dynasty is over, think again: nypost.com/2016/11/10/chelsea-clinton-being-groomed-to-run-for-congress/

Clintons campaign was doomed from the start. It's nothing imo to do with her being a women. And everything to do with an ineffective marketing campaign
Exactly. If your life isn't great then someone who says 'Make America Great Again' will appeal to you. Trump in that sense was a marketing genius. People were willing to overlook his personal er.. 'flaws'. It was a bit like the episode of The Simpsons when the whole town were conned by the monorail man.

• was conned

Yes. His marketing was spot on. He got through to the right people with the message they wanted to hear.

Whether he delivers on this is yet to be seen. Either way I find him and his views abhorrent, but then I wasn't his target market.

And yes, I'm pretty sure people were conned.

Obama is not popular and people see her as an extension of him. His policies are not what the people who voted for Trump want.
She's seen as an extension of that.

Aren't we always MrsLion?

He's already going back on some of his promises - Obamacare, which he labelled a "disaster" during his campaign - now has parts which he 'likes very much' and he intends to keep.

And so it begins - the man said and did whatever was needed to get elected. I'm convinced he's not as hard right as people believed he was, and the reality of being president will reveal a very different Trump.

A bit like Brexit - all talk and no action.

Clinton was out of touch with a vast majority of Americans and what they wanted.

Clinton got 0.x% more of the popular vote than Trump. I know almost 50% of eligible didn't vote at all, but that doesn't mean Trump's message was any closer to their hearts. (wondering if there's any point in saying that in the "post facts" world).