Update: Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event.

[DrLoveHandles]

Morning MNers. I wanted to say a massive thank you to people who replied to my panicked thread on Tuesday about being called to HR. And thank you to people who DMed me as well. It was such a big help to get some perspective and to know how to prepare. Thank you!

Here’s the original thread: Page 40 | Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event. Thoughts, please... | Mumsnet

Right, an update:
I had the meeting with HR this morning. It was a fact-finding meeting. I took a colleague from another department who made copious notes.

Basically, a complaint has been lodged against the guy who asked me “Why aren’t you drinking?” because he made inappropriate and unprofessional comments to a junior female member of staff after I’d left the drinks reception last week.

In response, he’s lodged a counter-complaint to say that he was ostracised and bullied at the event by several women. I am one of the women he's named, saying that I spoke unprofessionally and condescendingly, citing a couple of Respect At Work type policies. He hasn't lodged complaints about individual women but, I think, about the event and event organisers itself saying that they/it created a non-inclusive and hostile atmosphere for men, partly perpetrated by the women who were mean to him. The event itself was about a "woman's issue" so, yes, it was mostly of interest to women.

HR wanted to hear my side of the story which I told them as recommended by several posters (thank you again!). I told them he asked me an intrusive and unprofessional question which could raise issues re. several protected characteristics. I told them that I tried giving “soft no” answer as a social cue to avoid social awkwardness or embarrassment (i.e. the thing he’s accusing me of), then moved to be firm and clear (as taught on the leadership course) before I left the conversation.

I said that if my experience is anything to go by, his perception of being “ostracised” or “bullied” is very likely to be women setting professional boundaries – there are a few policies that talk about this which I cited.

HR said that its very unlikely his complaint will go anywhere, but they have to hear everything that happened that evening and fully investigate. I’m just waiting to hear back about that.

They’re going to use what happened to me (him persistently asking why I’m not drinking) as evidence of a pattern of his behaviour that evening in support of the original complaint about him.

“You get a black spot on your name in academia, your whole career internationally is down the drain”…if you’re junior/female/from a minority group. If you’re a senior, white male, you are given the benefit of the doubt ad absurdia in my experience :)

Good, I'm glad. This will backfire massively for him.

No need to be a dick.

A good outcome - I hoped it was the case that a complaint had been made against him. Hopefully he will be dealt with firmly. Idiot.

And yes, sadly in HE this behaviour is not exactly rare.

My response was deleted and all I said was that I doubted @mumsntt had any friends. And yet @mumsntt ’s twatty response allowed to stand. Weird

i'm pleased for you @DrLoveHandles but please think carefully whether you could get in trouble for disclosing all of this on MN

Weird. I doubt that poster has any standards or integrity either.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/disciplinary-meetings/dealing-with-disciplinary-action-and-dismissal-at-work/

You must read Citizens Advice or Acas guidance on your next steps. Your employer might not follow all of the correct steps (see the terrible recent Treasury case where a young woman killed herself after a flawed disciplinary process), so it’s important that you know what those are, and are treated fairly.

PS Apologies, posted this without seeing your welcome update. But it’s relevant to everyone in employment anyway. Glad it worked out for you!

I don’t think I could have stuck around knowing all this

What would you have done? Resigned from your (well paid, comfortable, flexible) job because of HR's decision in a case that didn't involve you? 🤔

These were 4 colleagues that you were close to or is your account of what happened about the water tight case etc based on hear say? And you respected them and rated them professionally?

If so, then I’d have been worried about what the heck the future held for me!

So yes, I’d have been looking for another job.

An academic job is like shitting a golden egg. There's no chance I'd give that up because of HR incompetence in a case I wasn't involved in. Madness.

This thread had a really weird effect on people. It has been odd to say the least.

Did the women take it any further than HR?

No. They were run ragged. Two of them left the university. The two that remained focused on getting their careers back on track after months of wasting time on this shitshow.

Such a shame. If genuinely a watertight case… then they would have been successful if pursued outside of HR

Very likely, at the ET. They would then have been blacklisted throughout their sector.

Yes. Men dominate the world. We live under patriarchy and that's how that works.

And?

You're very likely one of the many who doesn't 'see it'.

Regardless of your beliefs re what is real we still, unfortunately live under patriarchy. And before you start no I won't do your homework for you.

Look into it yourself. The information is there should you wish to understand it.

Did this thread become an incel festival because folks couldn't handle their disappointment when OP didn't get into trouble for putting a man in his place?