Update: Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event.

[DrLoveHandles]

Morning MNers. I wanted to say a massive thank you to people who replied to my panicked thread on Tuesday about being called to HR. And thank you to people who DMed me as well. It was such a big help to get some perspective and to know how to prepare. Thank you!

Here’s the original thread: Page 40 | Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event. Thoughts, please... | Mumsnet

Right, an update:
I had the meeting with HR this morning. It was a fact-finding meeting. I took a colleague from another department who made copious notes.

Basically, a complaint has been lodged against the guy who asked me “Why aren’t you drinking?” because he made inappropriate and unprofessional comments to a junior female member of staff after I’d left the drinks reception last week.

In response, he’s lodged a counter-complaint to say that he was ostracised and bullied at the event by several women. I am one of the women he's named, saying that I spoke unprofessionally and condescendingly, citing a couple of Respect At Work type policies. He hasn't lodged complaints about individual women but, I think, about the event and event organisers itself saying that they/it created a non-inclusive and hostile atmosphere for men, partly perpetrated by the women who were mean to him. The event itself was about a "woman's issue" so, yes, it was mostly of interest to women.

HR wanted to hear my side of the story which I told them as recommended by several posters (thank you again!). I told them he asked me an intrusive and unprofessional question which could raise issues re. several protected characteristics. I told them that I tried giving “soft no” answer as a social cue to avoid social awkwardness or embarrassment (i.e. the thing he’s accusing me of), then moved to be firm and clear (as taught on the leadership course) before I left the conversation.

I said that if my experience is anything to go by, his perception of being “ostracised” or “bullied” is very likely to be women setting professional boundaries – there are a few policies that talk about this which I cited.

HR said that its very unlikely his complaint will go anywhere, but they have to hear everything that happened that evening and fully investigate. I’m just waiting to hear back about that.

They’re going to use what happened to me (him persistently asking why I’m not drinking) as evidence of a pattern of his behaviour that evening in support of the original complaint about him.

Because us women never ever do this 😆

Christ, the fragility and entitlement of some men is beyond belief.

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you were able to explain exactly what happened.

Thanks for the update. I’m your opinion, what do you think will be said to this man by HR? If they’re toothless, why do you think this is?

I am so very sorry that you had to go through this all, just because of that tool.

Incredibly irritating when people attempt to derail threads in this way. It is the OP's business how much detail is included and I think we might do the OP the courtesy of assuming that she has used her judgement in determining what to include.

Well done 👏 you acquitted yourself well

he's a sexist cock 🐓

Not as unprofessional and shit as the bloke who's caused all the kerfuffle.

Sounds like the right place for someone like him to thrive

Derail? Oh calm down
it was a quick post saying this as outing
the Op even NC because “potentially outing”

Incompetent? I’d say that about most HR staff in general. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The more I hear about HR the less I like it.

Whatever happened to 'Personnel' departments as was? They were all right.

The other thread attracted exactly the same type of man OP encountered on this evening event, along with the usual women who pander to them with the 'be kind' schtick. They are a staple on this site and, unfortunately, in academia too.

I rarely ever socialise with colleagues at my home university, usually only at conferences involving my own research networks. My attitude is that if I don't absolutely have to be there, I won't go. There are other ways of being collegial - they get enough out of me with the well-over contractual hours I expend on teaching and research - and I'm not paid for optional extras like these.

This thread is a timely reminder as to why I consider 'head down, mouth shut' an effective workplace strategy. It hasn't always worked, particularly when coming up against men like this, but it's enabled me to avoid some unpleasant situations which later blew over without my presence and with the least possible amount of harm done.

OP, I hope you never have to encounter this presumptuous oaf again.

And there are around 60 million people in the UK. It's very likely that there's several very similar scenarios playing themselves out across the country.

Or the OP might be outside the UK. Lots of Irish people use MN, for example.

Completely agree with head down mouth shut strategy. I avoid social events with colleagues as far as politely possible. If I don't go, I can't upset anyone. And vice versa.

My experience is that the more trouble someone causes (and usually the less competent at research) the more they have attention danced on them and the more they fail upwards. I must be doing something wrong.

I've become cynical and rather jaded about UKHE. Can you tell? 😆

I’ve never had any dealings thankfully beyond the joining experience and leaving experience.

Oh, yes. I could tell you more than one fairly similar story, and that's just from my own personal experience.

Misogyny (and worse) is rife.

Please check yours

What’s interesting to me is that you immediately thought you’d done something wrong and were in trouble. Male entitlement has us captured to the bone. You dared to stand up for yourself and at once began to anticipate and fear the consequences. I am sorry for the stress you suffered x

It's hard to undo our female conditioning, even when we are alert to the fact that this happens and are perpetually irritated by it. I admit I am no exception, even though it irks me in the extreme.

Women tend to be far too apt to question our own behaviour before we question men's. Look at many of the threads on this site to see just what kind of pushback is levelled on women in this position. I had to deal with a case of sexual harassment, which later progressed to stalking, by a male colleague in my workplace. I knew exactly what he'd done but kept copious notes, just because I had to be really, really sure. I was sure the first time he rubbed up against my backside during a mixed gathering when there were about 8 feet of clear space between me and the wall. Still I asked myself: 'could I be mistaken?'

This was many years ago. He was told the way the wind was blowing and left preemptively - but not until his union rep had attempted to blacken my reputation and I was the one treated as a pariah for daring to report him. Even now I have the occasional wobble: 'what if I was wrong?'

I'm not wrong. I wasn't then, and I'm not now.

“It's hard to undo our female conditioning, even when we are alert to the fact”

So true. I acquiesced and gave a man a hug recently because he stood there with his arms open and I didn’t want to make a fuss. I’m 53. Afterwards I was gobsmacked that despite being a confident, self assured woman with lots of life experience, a professional with years of dealing with difficult situations, I just did it. Grrr.

I have worked at three different universities. This could be about the HR in any/all of them!

I think HR will say it was all a big misunderstanding, fault on both sides.

That's what they said to a big sexual misconduct case last year.