Called to HR for behaviour at an after-work event. Thoughts, please...

[DrLoveHandles]

Name changed because this is potentially outing.

I was at an after-work reception last week. There was mingling. I mingled into a group of four colleagues. All were holding wine. I was holding orange juice.

One of the colleagues - different department, never met him before - asked "Why aren't you drinking?"
I kind of waved my hand, said "Oh, you know, reasons" and laughed. I believe this made it clear I didn't want to discuss the matter without making things awkward.
The guy then said "Intriguing, like what reasons?"

I saw red. I basically listed all the reasons why someone mightn't be drinking alcohol and told him it was inappropriate to ask. I didn't shout or swear and I wasn't overtly aggressive. But my tone was patronising and I took a very forthright kind of stance (unblinking eye contact, standing at full height, no smiles etc.). I didn't give him time to reply, I excused myself from the group and went home shortly afterwards.

Today I got an email from my line manager asking me for a meeting with her and HR people to discuss what went on. Apparently, its a matter of unprofessional behaviour.

I'm not in a union.

I've never had any dealings with HR before. I'd be really grateful to hear anyone's thoughts on this situation. I mean anything - what might happen? What I should do to prepare etc?

Presumably you were also trained when that stance was appropriate.

HIS insistence caused the problem. Had he said ‘fair enough’ instead of pushing it, then there would be nothing to see here.

I take back what I said about you not responding well you did well - I have now read all your posts.

I’d complain officially to HR about this colleague. Sleazy git, trying to force an answer when you’d made it clear you weren’t going to discuss it. I’d go as far as saying that I felt this was a form of micro aggression aimed at you as a woman, a kind of unnecessary, intimidating persistence when you had already made your position clear.

Most unis are huge on EDI for staff and students, including being accepting and supportive of religious diversity, neurodiversity, disability, chronic illness. Repeatedly asking you to justify not drinking could be seen as culturally insensitive (I believe it is). You could be dealing with illness, be pregnant but not wanting too share, be on medication and much more. This colleague needs training.

Your academic colleague is a dick for reporting you in the first place. I’d even wonder whether there’s incel influence behind his attitude.

Hope your meeting goes well.

Oh and do join a union.

No -she could be pregnant or on antibiotics. He should not have asked at all, let alone repeatedly.

A good summary in both these replies.. short and sweet so its easy for HR to take in.

I agree. He asked,
you tried to evade.
He pushed you for the "reasons" you gave him a logical list of why people may not want to drink at a work event.

He asked for an answer and he got it.

The fact that the reasons people might not want to drink are so darned obvious, that it might be deemed Patronising to state them. But since they are obvious, why did he insist on asking. Hard not to be patronising in those circs.

I think he owed you an apology.. and you didn't get one. I'd lead with that. He put you on the spot asking personal intrusive questions and pushng for details in front of a group of colleagues you didn't really know, hoping to embarrass you. You used your course training to deflect. He didn't like it.

If you offended you are sorry, but you also found his questioning offensive.

Maybe write some notes on what you recall saying.. as an aide memoire.. don't wave it in front of them though in case they want it.
Good Luck.

First of all I wanted to say good for you in calling out his questioning, I don’t drink and get this constantly! Drives me mad, he hasn’t liked you being firm and showing him up for being inappropriate I would lead with thank you so much for calling me in I really didn’t think to trouble you with his inappropriate behaviour but here we are…

The only over the top thing here is that someone has seen fit to run to HR.
Indeed. This male clearly didn't like a woman saying no to him.

Are you comfortable sharing your and the guy's age on here? Is he much older or a young academic? Is s senior or junior in the reporting structure to you? Are you in the same department? what is his academic subject I am dying to know.

Your academic colleague is a dick for reporting you in the first place. I’d even wonder whether there’s incel influence behind his attitude.

One more time for the cheap seats:

The OP, and therefore all of us, do NOT KNOW whether the man reported her or even if the “unprofessional behaviour” HR want to discuss, is the OP’s, his, or both.

Indeed. Or had been sexually assaulted when drunk and didnt wsnt to feel out of control. Or on a medication for mental health that interacted badly with alcohol or about a million other reasons that are nothing to do with alcoholism but are just as private and none of his business.

When did this become about women and men? I am a (F) recovering alcoholic and get asked about not drinking a lot - and also get called boring regularly. To be honest women are for more intrusive in my experience. Had a woman asked this of you would your response have been so out of hand?

Why?

'I don't want to'.

Job's a good 'un.

Sounds a bit virtue signalling to me,or at least kinda intense.

No,he shouldn't have asked,but you didn't need a speech, patronising tones and forthright stances. Save that for more important things.

Well, yes, but also, I saw someone commenting recently that having liver disease makes people think you are an alcoholic. So if you had liver disease, you wouldn’t want to tell people that’s why you can’t drink because that’s what they’d assume, and why should you have to tell anyone you’ve got liver disease? Or are trying to conceive or any other number of reasons you might not be drinking that are nobody’s business, so I do get it. I did think “seeing red” sounded quite extreme though. It does make it seem like it’s an issue for her (as was saying “reasons” instead of “none of your business” or “because I’m driving” or “I just don’t drink”)

edited: I just thought of another one: maybe she got spiked as a young woman and doesn’t drink around others so it can never be used as an excuse for seeming like you’ve drunk too much. That would be a very emotional reason that might make you see red at being asked?

I agree. If she were a younger woman, I would wonder if she was pregnant. I also would have thought she might be driving and has a zero-tolerance policy towards drinking and driving, which is admirable. It could also be due to antibiotics, but in that case, she may have said why. In any case, it's none of my business and I certainly wouldn't ask.

No it's just you and it's quite the narrow imagination you have there too.

She could be a recovering alcoholic or the child/sibling of an alcoholic. She could simply not love alcohol or be a wine snob who hates cheap shit drink at work receptions, be on medication, pregnant, hungover from the previous night, on antibiotics, on a diet, have an eating disorder, have her period and not feeling it and whatnot.

Really? That's the only explanation you can think of.
Sometimes I don't drink just because I don't fancy it and yet I still would get cross if someone asked why I wasn't drinking as it is an intrusive question and always implies, problematically, that drinking is the "norm"

• health issues /medication
• pregnancy
• ex alcoholic
• family member who is /was an alcoholic
• driving home afterwards
• don't fancy it
• on a diet
• planning to do something else later (work, childcare, a hobby)
• doesn't fancy being tipsy and unprofessional around colleagues

No, it wasn't. We don't have board meetings or clients. It was about female leadership, bias, unconscious bias and everyday interactions with colleagues. Women not occupying space like male counterparts do was a particular focus.

She could be any of those things of course, but it’s the fact she didn’t just come up with an excuse to say that makes it seem like an issue. I am a recovering alcoholic (but I’m way into recovery, like 15 years sober and don’t feel it’s a big thing to me now) so I just say: I don’t drink. The fact she made it into an issue by not just saying something casual and then “saw red” does make it seem like more of a “thing”.

Why don’t we ask people drinking ‘Why are you drinking alcohol?’

The obvious one is it is bad for my (and your) health. Alcohol is a group 1 carcinogen. It is linked to cardiovascular disease, liver and digestive disease, diabetes and dementia. It is potentially addictive. There is no safe limit for overall health.

It should be perfectly acceptable not to drink for health reasons.

I remember when I was pregnant a (well meaning) GP explaining the different tricks they used to hide the fact they were having a soft drink. And although I understood the intent, my main thought was "holy shit what is wrong with our society that it is seen as remarkable to have a soft drink at the pub".
Ever since then I have mainly had soft drinks as it feels important to me that it isn't seen as unusual

I don’t get what’s wrong with “I just don’t drink”. You don’t have to give people your reasons. If they asked why not you can say “I just don’t” or “I’ve never really liked it, and it’s not like it’s good for you so I just don’t bother.”

I am sure I am the only person who thought that.

It is her being defensive and seeing red that would make me question if there was an embarrassing reason for not drinking. Again, I would never ask a colleague.

Agree.
I took medication that caused liver damage and I have never felt so utterly unwell. Thankfully my liver has recovered but it has killed my desire to drink ever again.

A nefarious reason?