Constant criticism from people I manage about my management

[Teakake]

As per the title, I am finding myself receiving unsolicited feedback from staff. I am significantly younger than many of them and in the past they have been used to a manager who hangs around drinking tea and asking about your weekend plans, or getting caught up in tiny details and basically doing all the perceived ‘easy’ little jobs which other staff are already here to do.

Problem is, this was running the business down the drain, and the most important jobs were not getting done, so I am a business manager, here to get efficiencies. I am not answering the phones at reception because I employ people to do that and my time is spent on other areas of the business.

However do not get this wrong, I will gladly pitch in if help is needed and we are unexpectedly busy or understaffed, I do not think of myself as too good for any job and I know how everyone’s job works as I have learnt this from them directly.

I do not micromanage - I am here for support if it’s needed. I don’t work remotely, am on site all day full time. I am very busy so I am often whizzing around and will say hi quickly in passing, and I ask staff to give me a heads up about what they want to talk to me about so that I can prioritise if this is urgent or not, as some of my work is very time critical.

The staff feel I don’t spend enough time with them. I ask why they want this time, is it work related? If so, I will arrange training.

No it’s because they want to feel important and special to me.

They are constantly interrupting me, demanding my time and when I give it to them, they just use that time to complain. I try to help them get out of circular thinking they don’t want to, So I leave the discussion with no resolution.

Even if I tell them that I don’t have extra time, I am in meetings and I have deadlines, it’s never good enough. I am here all day but they say ‘we never see you’ or ‘you don’t show any interest in us’ and ‘you are cold and too professional’.

They are important as humans, and valued in the workplace so I ensure they all have a safe working environment, stable work patterns, adequate training, annual appraisals, work related meetings.

No this is not what they mean. They are offended I am not their FRIEND. I am not befriending them and sitting on their desk chit chatting.

I do not want to be their friend. I just want to be their manager.

I am going to be honest, the clingy neediness is not helping, it feels like I have a large group of ladies clinging to my arms like small children, dragging me down.

I have put in boundaries and they do not respond well.

I approached my managers and asked if they agreed with this feedback from staff. They said no, I am doing exactly what they want me to do. I asked if they wanted me to do anything differently. They said no, my performance was great. There is no issue. The issue is the staff who have bad attitudes. I have suggested sharing an overview of my diary with the whole team so they can see how busy I am. No, they just want me to performance manage these people - which I am, but as they are constantly criticising me, we just don’t make any progress.

My managers are not helping me here.

In order to get out of this rut I have the following options:

-Put them all on last warning/performance plans
-take a tribunal risk and start letting people go (not all that comfortable with this, because it’s started to concern me I am part of the issue)
-Leave myself and get a new job
-start faking friendliness to the detriment of my job and productivity (I can’t do this!)
-take out formal grievances on the ring leaders to force my managers to intervene

Has this management style improved productivity? Are you trying to impose new working methods without asking for their input? I can remember being hideously frustrated when a very young "manager" imposed new working methods on our department which were supposed to increase efficiency, but in fact slowed us down, as we could all have told her if we had been asked. Also, if productivity/efficiency HAS improved under your working methods, are you feeding back to THEM that this is the case, and that you and your management are pleased by this? And if there have been improvements, have they been rewarded? Doesn't even have to be a big bonus, something like taking in a tray of doughnuts one day. People need to feel valued, recognised and listened to.

The best managers are leaders who invest in people; and not everyone is cut out to be a people manager. You can be very good at what you do, but cannot lead. There is a difference.

Yes, there are deadlines and KPIs to meet. The best performing teams will have a manager who inspires them to meet those deadlines. It's a performance issue if one person isn't meeting deadlines; it's a manager issue if the team isn't.

For me personally no there isn’t, I don’t get paid to manage up and to me these are really simple things that need to be done.

The manager may not have a clear picture of the situation.

It makes no sense that employees are doing their reviews with their line managers manager. That’s what is off here, and there’s something seriously wrong with your HR.

Their direct line managers should be empowered to deal with day to day decisions and you should be able to waft in and wave at the troops sometimes- preferably with tea and biscuits. The staff must be very confused about who is actually in charge, have worked out it’s clearly not their LM and as a result are pushing their issues to the next in line. Honestly I don’t think anyone could succeed in your role as it’s set up now.

I can relate to you a bit from a previous job I had. But in retrospect, I handled it badly. You'll always have some bad apples but the majority of people don't come to work wanting to antagonise management. Try and shake off the "me and them" mentality.

You need to play the game. Tell them you've listened to feedback and once a week/month you'll hold an informal coffee hour. And make a point every day to smile and say hello, even through gritted teeth. Remove their ammunition that they don't have access to you.

It sounds like you have ineffective line managers beneath you who ought to be acting as a bit of a gatekeeper on some of these issues like building temperature. So look at whether they need assertiveness courses or performance management.

How are line managers supposed to line manage without doing appraisals? The whole point of appraisals is to discuss people's goals and to find ways of allowing them to be achieved. You have cut the line managers out of this process but then complain about their management skills, which doesn't seem fair.

Something that jumped out at me was the way you say you 'employ' people to carry out various roles. As you are an employee yourself, and one that has managers of your own, you are not employing them - you are managing their roles, or in the case of HR you are working with them to manage others. The high-handedness of your approach is very likely to rub people up the wrong way, even if some of it is more a turn of phrase than intention.

So much of people skills is about presentation. It may be that you are starting at a disadvantage because you are younger than the people you manage. That may be their fault, but at the same time you need to take it into account. Calling them 'ladies' may seem a small thing, but it is significant. It's arguably better than 'girls', but it does seem condescending.

Have some of them been there for years, seeing various initiatives come and go, and others being recycled as a new manager hasn't seen why they didn't work the first time? Are they involved in decisions that directly impact on them? Have you explained why you are doing what you are doing? As others have suggested, even a monthly meeting where you can keep staff in the loop could be useful.

I'm guessing, as obviously I don't know about the dynamics in your particular company, but there is always a reason for staff discontent, and in this case the workforce is complaining about you in particular, so the odds are high that the problem is with your management style. I have sometimes been friends with people I've managed, and with those who have managed me, but they were friendships outside of the workplace. What happens at work is separate from that, and as a much younger woman you may not want to be friends with the staff, and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not convinced that they really want to be friends with you either, tbh - it's far more likely that they just want to feel listened to.

I think you need to equip your line managers to handle the situation better. I am friendly with my boss' boss, as in I say hello - I never go to him with my problems.

Perhaps you could suggest a few sessions of open forum……when the office is not too busy of course……to give them all an audience to share concerns, gripes, moans, suggestions, issues etc. if they choose not to open up then, too bad, that had an opportunity.

I've not read the full thread but I cannot see that you are willing to have a weekly meeting. Yes they can be a bore but restrict the time and get one of them to take minutes with actions. Or a bi-weekly meeting

They are absolute bullshit employees if they are not contacting building maintenance or caretakers regarding the heat in the building ffs. Direct them to whichever department is responsible

Absolutely share your calendar with them. Perhaps if they see it is a "proper formal" meeting and not just a chitchat they won't interrupt. Our whole department used to share our calendars, I could see at one glance where the whole department was. And when you have a meeting with your group, if anything has come out of your other meetings that affect them, then share it with them. EG it was discussed at X meeting that Y department is going to look at the heating etc. They will understand why you are at these meetings and how your attendance affects them and their work.

When I did Sociology A level 40+ years ago there was a study done on a department in a factory. Little changes were made, production went up more changes more production. Final change was to put everything back to the beginning - production went up. People need to feel that you are interested in them, even if blatantly obvious you are not

Edited as again it didn't make sense

You sound like a terrible manager!!! Sorry but you did come on to ask. You get much better results from people when they know you respect them and you clearly don’t have any respect for the people you manage.

You sound like my ideal boss, OP, and I'm amazed by the virtual unanimity of these responses. People like your employees and many PP must be much more common than I'd thought (perhaps the root of this country's poor productivity levels?) - I suppose I've been spoiled by my own working environment and hadn't realised the extent to which people can be like this.

My managers give clear direction, are friendly and are approachable if approached with a well-defined issue that's concisely explained. It's exactly what we want. Nobody in my line of work has the time or inclination for lengthy generalised moaning and I really don't care whether my boss shows interest in what I did at the weekend, I just can't imagine being that weirdly needy.

I'm a grown adult and just get on what needs to be done with minimal supervision. Many of these suggestions are crazy to me. Mandatory coffee mornings? Friday "wash up" sessions? Scheduled daily chats? If out bosses suggested any of these the responses would be a slightly more polite version of "fuck off and let me do my job".

No advice OP, sorry.

I think your last post (which was a bit of a strop) highlights the problem. You sound quite young and inexperienced. I work in Further Education, in a different building to my manager. In addition to scheduled meetings my best manager would always pop down, have a coffee, a chat, be interested...maybe just 30mins or so each week. My worst manager (inexperienced) never calls down, keeps to emails and scheduled meetings.. always too busy and therefore does not really know that is going on - we have all become less interested ourselves and less productive.

I often don't have time to 'chat' to my team but I always make the effort to stick my head round the door and ask if all ok, or even a quick 'sorry I haven't had the chance to catch up today' email, when in fact I may not have time for days. I always make time if there is an issue. If I'm very busy at that exact time, I will schedule in time that same day to speak with them. I have an open door policy and I think that's really important; I want my team to know that I will have their back. They also know that if they make a mistake I will help them sort it and arrange any training needed to make sure it doesn't happen again.

-Put them all on last warning/performance plans
-take a tribunal risk and start letting people go (not all that comfortable with this, because it’s started to concern me I am part of the issue)

Whilst I agree with almost everything you have said about being a manager and not a friend etc, these comments jumped out at me. You genuinely think that disciplinary processes and dismissals are the way to go because they are upset you don't get to know them a little??? That screams it's a "you" problem and not a "them" problem. Whether you approve of the way they have been managed previously or not, and whether it was efficient or not, you are taking that out on them. Good managers lead and develop their staff, and sometimes you have to take a step back and meet them in order to support forward movement. They cannot be such write-offs that they are worth nothing to the business - because if they are why have you even kept them this long? If they are failing as a collective, then you are failing as a leader.

Oh wow - this sounds exactly like my old job (which I’ve now left)! Though you have managed to succinctly categorise and describe the environment much better than I could. I wasn’t management but was very senior and in a technical role.

It was the most bizarre work place I have ever experienced! Much like you describe, the place was very inefficient, drama-filled and with no boundaries. There was a lot of work to do by management but staff wanted ALL the management to be friendly and “supportive” of them as people, etc. Nothing was ever enough for them in the long term and they seemed to sort of “accept” someone into their midst, love bomb them and then when the person pulled even slightly away to do their actual job, they would turn on the person and claim they were unfair, unfit to lead, bad at their job, nasty, a user who didn’t value people. It was like working with a bunch of children/teenagers who “know their rights.”

While I agree with pp that people are half a management job - I don’t think they’ve worked in situations like this. In retrospect, what would have worked in my old job was really firm strict management - with holding people to account. Kind of like how you have to be with children - here are your job expectations, you meet them and act professionally or there are consequences.

Capitulating to them by spending more time as a friend - or sitting by their desks and chatting (which was what my colleagues wanted as well), trying to be sympathetic for their upset or “trauma” so that they can move past it, doing tasks like answering phones and showing them how important they are to you will most likely NOT work. They will want more and more. And you will never be able to then establish yourself as their boss/manager and have them respect you.

Good luck to you!

I’m having flashbacks to my old workplace where they put this type of shit in - coffee meetings, clear the air walks, yoga mornings… along with all the other shite like Easter egg hunts….

The thing is - none of these worked to “improve the culture” and I often felt strongly that the culture would be improved by people doing the fucking jobs! But management was too concerned (or too weak) to insist that people do their jobs and so capitulated to these demands and were completely run ragged by the staff.

OP some of the phrases and wording you are using in this post sound really cold and clinical, I can see why you would easily rub people up the wrong way if this is how you communicate, interact or write emails.

If you have multiple levels of staff below you, then you are being employed as a leader and not a manager. To also have a massive to-do list of tasks on top of this with that many staff isnt really something you can also juggle. Its about helping the staff (who are employed by the company and not you) to help you do that. You do this by building trust, relationships, and being available etc. Its about knowing that Dave is happy where he is, so you know he will do the work. Maslows Hierarchy of Needs is at play here.

Why havent you pushed back on your own workload to help your team culture?

Your HR manager being happy to step aside and have no back bone is something I have never seen. They should have stood their ground. This is not acceptable.

Do you have an external coach or mentor? I think you would massively benefit from someone who can help you more than Mumsnet can.

Part of being a manager is knowing your team. How can you manage people if you don’t know them, aren’t interested in them,

Not everyone with the same job title is the same

Sometimes you will find listening to people and getting to know them saves you so much time in the long run as in among all these “annoying” women’s complaints will be issues that you won’t see as you aren’t interested in them.

They will have some idea of why the company is failing or parts of the reason.
You seem really dismissive of people on a lower pay grade than you.

Those cups of tea and chats and getting to know these people are a waste of time if you go in with fake interest. You might think you are being clever but they will see through you and think you an arrogant prick

The fact the directors aren’t listening is probably why the company was failing in the first place.

I was one of those annoying women who directors didn’t know and dismissed my warning with a get back behind your desk you don’t know anything attitude

If these people had taken 5 minutes to find out about me and who I was married to and who I had sat round my dining table on a weekend they would have realised that what I was saying came from a place of knowledge.

It cost them their company and it cost me my pension (used to prop up the company as it failed)

What do you mean trying to cause conflict with you? I don't understand.

Everyone on your team is valuable. It is important to make them feel valued and that their input is needed and contributes to the success of the organisation.

If they come whinging to you, acknowledge they sound frustrated. Ask them to reflect on the situation and in your next catch up you would like to hear their suggestions on how to change whatever they're whinging about.

I usually get the misfits and people no one wants on my team. They perform for me because they feel seen, heard and supported.

If you keep going the way you are they'll dig in and actively make your life a misery.

You need to up skill the line managers. They're the problem

Balance is needed here, I was very like this as a young manager as I was task orientated and I became a much better manager when I learned I was task driven and not people driven and softened up for want of a better word. Nuance is needed and its harder than "your job my job" mentality but it can get great results.

Agree with this - the line manager layer isn’t working properly.

You seem to not understand that you’re not having the effect you want, so something needs to change. If all your workforce (not just a couple of malcontents) are made unhappy by your management style, you need to consider changing your style, or your firm's management structure. If you don’t want them to speak to you about office temperature etc., who should they be speaking to about it, and why is that option not working? Something is going wrong and it is your responsibility to sort it, one way or another. Cracking down with disciplinary measures is absolutely not the right solution. An unhappy workforce will not be producing their best work.

You don’t need to be their "friend" but leading a team involves more than impersonal task-related communication. Have you done any training on leadership and management styles?

All your options, other than you getting a new job, will only worsen morale in your workforce. It wouldn't kill you to do a little chitchat to make your team feel you value and are interested in them as people, not just work units. If you really can’t do that I don’t think you’re suited to a role that involves people management.

exactly this