Constructive dismissal grounds

[Jobque]

Hi I just want some advice on this.

I have worked for my company for a long time and I was promoted into my current job without interview by a previous manager (who doesn’t work there anymore).

The job has changed as the company has changed over the years and new management. I am a manager of a team and told my managers a year ago I felt swamped at work. My team constantly interrupt me all day asking questions and it’s irritating. I asked to drop my hours and they did eventually let me but this meant I had to let someone else train up in parts of my job for when I am not there. I don’t really get on with them, they think they are better than me at my job so I just let them do their thing on their day and I do mine on my day. I don’t really like other people being involved in my job, I don’t think they can do it as well as I can but it’s good to have someone to delegate all the bits of the job I don’t like to.

I think things are fine as they are, but there has been so many changes to how we work now and I feel pushed out. I’ve kept my head down and not really got too involved but it annoys me they don’t consult with me with the decisions.

work are doing a restructure and I’ve been told that they want me doing some different things at work. It’s a bit of a different job title but a lot of the same things I’ve been doing anyway, same pay, same hours etc. I can do the job but I don’t like these changes they seem boring. I get why they are doing it, they say it’s more efficient use of my time as I am experienced but ideally I want to work less hours (cut another day a week) and stay in the same role. It also means the person I don’t get on with is going to get more responsibility and take over some of the stuff I do. My manager says I am doing too many basic jobs and as a manager I need to be contributing more to making the place run better. I do a lot of the basic jobs when we are short staffed but I just don’t think they pay me enough to step up to this new level. They asked me to trial the job I said no.

I said I don’t want the job so said I would leave. They said there is no other job at my level, just the one they want me to do but if I resign I could still come back in a different job (that is also boring) on the less hours I want, less responsibilities but with less pay, and I don’t want that one either and doesn’t seem fair. I want to keep my current job and stay on my pay level.

I told them this sounds like constructive dismissal do you think I have a case?

[Note from MNHQ - OP confirmed later on that this is a reverse - while we don't exactly encourage this kind of thing, we appreciate that posters sometimes do things this way to gain a different perspective, which we could probably all do with from time to time.]

They will jump to conclusions of who has spoken with me and make their life a misery. I’ve seen them do it. Even if it’s the wrong person

Definitely no where near constructive dismissal I’m afraid. The harsh reality is that companies undergo changes and evolve all the time - they have to. You can either stay and cope with those changes or leave if you don’t like those changes, but unfortunately you won’t get a say in those changes. Sorry OP, maybe time to look for something else as you really don’t sound happy with your working situation anyway.

This

I will report the thread but wanted to say thanks to everyone to contributed as I felt out of order didn’t expect to get so many responses

just that I have been doing this so long and it’s not been a problem before so why now?

You said that you sometimes forget to do what you are asked to do, and that you totally avoid one element of your contracted work. I'm guessing that all of that really has been a problem.

Sounds like you're not a good manager, and they're trying to steer you into something which would add more value into the business.

You are micro managing which means they may as well get rid of you and be no worse off. Just because you're good operationally, doesn't mean you should be a manager.

This was so one sided and frankly juvenile that it had to be either made up or a reverse. So you are probably the junior doing the parts they dont want to do and wanting to take over their job.

I'm afraid your version of events sounds really biased. This person has worked in the office for a long time and how you treat them going forward will affect how other staff see they will be treated.

OP I've had a similar situation - I wasn't managing anyone but doing a role I liked. A new manager came in, decided I was too expensive to be doing the role I was doing and wanted to change my duties. The thing was, I wasn't really capable of doing what she wanted me to do.

So a few months later I found a different job and left (before I could be pushed).

In your shoes I'd take the trial, and use it to find another job.

Yes you can be doing a good job within the narrow confines of your role, but it might not be good in the bigger picture. Actually I am now a client of my previous employer and I don't think her changes achieved a great deal for clients. But companies are always reinventing the wheel and you go with it, or leave.

OP, I suggest you start again on another thread. This one is just messed up by your reverse, which never goes well.

You need to join one urgently. They will give you impartial advice.

Why didnt you just be honest and you would have gotten constructive advice?

I suspected it was a reverse when you mentioned the person got promoted without interview.

Doing a reverse makes it feel manipulative like you are trying to get the answer you want.
I don’t see how this assists you.

That post was your take on this person who you say you haven’t performance managed until now. I’d wager their’s is different.

If I was you I'd have HR heavily involved and be interviewing the team to see if they have evidence of bullying.

What a waste of time … why not just say the scenario as it is?!? 🤦🏻‍♀️

So why precisely do you think that you have a case? As a retired NHS manager I don't see it. Edit: oh its a reverse. Why did you bother OP?

For FFS op! You could:
Ring ACAS
Talk to your HR department
Discuss with a more senior manager

I would put them on a performance management plan and not mess about, being prepared to progress to dismissal as soon as possible.
Watch her like a hawk and at the first sign of taking it out on her staff I'd wheel her in again and add a disciplinary re bullying.

FFS seriously? Urgh. What a waste of bloody time.

There are a number of things you can do. Doing nothing is much worse than actually having the balls to face this head on and deal with it once and for all.

Once you start the ball rolling people will come forward with their grievances as to how this member of staff affects their daily work, morale etc. There will be strength in numbers.

Surely you make a plan with HR and act upon it.

I'm confused you say your team are slow - quicker to do things yourself, the management want your team to become more efficient - you say they are fine. You don't like your team interrupting you because they don't know what they are doing, you don't want to train them but you want to be their manager - so you're going to try not to complain about that. You don't like your lower paid job share person - they are trying to improve processes so the team is more efficient - you say there is no need - they think they are better than you at the job - you think you are better. It sounds like you don't like interacting with people very much - I think your company's idea of removing you from people management and getting you to manage other things is a good idea - you'd probably be happier and I'm sure everyone else would be too.

In my title I manage people they want to move me to manage different things not related to managing people and it makes me feel like it’s a demotion.

But you reduced your hours in order not to have to manage people — and then seem to have become resentful when the person given the job of managing the people you didn't want to got on with it and apparently did it well. Is it any wonder that your manager(s) thought you might be happier managing things rather than people?

At a tribunal they would be able to demonstrate that they'd bent over backwards to accommodate your needs. You need to move on. I suspect you've become far too comfortable in this setting and need the challenge of something new which will seem less boring to you.

Ah, it was a reverse. Talk to HR, devise a plan to get them out, implement it.

If I was your manager I would put you on a performance review plan.

Your attitude is terrible, I can only hope it doesn't bring any others down in the workplace.

I know this is a reverse but saying performance management won’t work with this employee suggests that you’re not in the right job either!

If you don’t know how to tackle this person, then maybe look for some additional training to help you make a start. Anyone can be performance managed properly if you know what you’re doing.

One of my colleagues at work was appointed a Head of Dept. when the previous one retired. My god, that dept. needed some serious intervention. He had staff skivving off shortly after clocking in but mostly, lazy staff who had got away with doing very little for years because their previous manager just wanted an easy life and to reach pension age. Senior management were aware of some of the issues but brought my younger friend in to investigate and sort things out. He was bloody marvellous.

Suffice to say, several members of staff were sacked for gross misconduct after he compiled loads of evidence of their nefarious activities and many others were performance managed out. He built up an amazing team within a relatively short period and now he’s left and is running his own operation very successfully.

It doesn’t sound as if you’re suited to being a manager: you’d rather be doing the job and not supervising others.

Lots of people get promoted to manager because they’re good at doing. Doesn’t make them good managers.

Unfortunately, the way that most organisations get structured is that managers get paid more. So if you just want to do, accept demotion and the accompanying pay cut, or learn to be a good manager, or leave. It’s up to you.

Yep, exactly this

I knew it was a reverse but I understand your situation. I’ve been there myself. Time to get a rock solid plan together in discussion with HR, and manage this person out.