Constructive dismissal grounds

[Jobque]

Hi I just want some advice on this.

I have worked for my company for a long time and I was promoted into my current job without interview by a previous manager (who doesn’t work there anymore).

The job has changed as the company has changed over the years and new management. I am a manager of a team and told my managers a year ago I felt swamped at work. My team constantly interrupt me all day asking questions and it’s irritating. I asked to drop my hours and they did eventually let me but this meant I had to let someone else train up in parts of my job for when I am not there. I don’t really get on with them, they think they are better than me at my job so I just let them do their thing on their day and I do mine on my day. I don’t really like other people being involved in my job, I don’t think they can do it as well as I can but it’s good to have someone to delegate all the bits of the job I don’t like to.

I think things are fine as they are, but there has been so many changes to how we work now and I feel pushed out. I’ve kept my head down and not really got too involved but it annoys me they don’t consult with me with the decisions.

work are doing a restructure and I’ve been told that they want me doing some different things at work. It’s a bit of a different job title but a lot of the same things I’ve been doing anyway, same pay, same hours etc. I can do the job but I don’t like these changes they seem boring. I get why they are doing it, they say it’s more efficient use of my time as I am experienced but ideally I want to work less hours (cut another day a week) and stay in the same role. It also means the person I don’t get on with is going to get more responsibility and take over some of the stuff I do. My manager says I am doing too many basic jobs and as a manager I need to be contributing more to making the place run better. I do a lot of the basic jobs when we are short staffed but I just don’t think they pay me enough to step up to this new level. They asked me to trial the job I said no.

I said I don’t want the job so said I would leave. They said there is no other job at my level, just the one they want me to do but if I resign I could still come back in a different job (that is also boring) on the less hours I want, less responsibilities but with less pay, and I don’t want that one either and doesn’t seem fair. I want to keep my current job and stay on my pay level.

I told them this sounds like constructive dismissal do you think I have a case?

[Note from MNHQ - OP confirmed later on that this is a reverse - while we don't exactly encourage this kind of thing, we appreciate that posters sometimes do things this way to gain a different perspective, which we could probably all do with from time to time.]

You just don't seem capable of evolving with the company or of accepting change. And no, I don't think you have any grounds for a constructive dismissal claim.

Sounds like you believe you are indispensable because of your knowledge and your have a bad attitude with it.

Any team I've taken over, if someone believed they were indispensable they either needed to change or move on. You don't seem to want to change...

I would move on if I were you - but don't expect another company to put up with the attitude you've displayed here.

Yeah they can. No it isn’t a demotion and honestly you really don’t seem to understand working life.

OP the worst thing about this whole post is because you didn’t like something you just dried constrictive dismissal. Constructive dismissal is serious. and protects those in business who are treated very badly.

You have been treated fairly and you just don’t like it.

Yeah they can change your job and giving you a promotion you don’t want to do isn’t a punishment nor grounds for called constructive dismissal. Read your contract - it’s pretty clear they can do this. You asked for reduced hours and they accommodated you.

Honestly I think you need to put your head down and focus on your job as your attitude will
out you in very thin ice.

Of course it's not constructive dismissal (I'm a lawyer). You don't want to do the job that you are currently doing, want to cut your hours but resent the job-share person doing your job when you're not there because you think they don't do it as well as you. That's called a dog in the manger attitude. If you can do your job well, it's not surprising that your employer would like you to do more of it. If that doesn't suit you, find another job.

You are complaining that you are working on your own, but this is from your OP

“My team constantly interrupt me all day asking questions and it’s irritating. I asked to drop my hours and they did eventually let me but this meant I had to let someone else train up in parts of my job for when I am not there. I don’t really get on with them, they think they are better than me at my job so I just let them do their thing on their day and I do mine on my day. I don’t really like other people being involved in my job, I don’t think they can do it as well as I can but it’s good to have someone to delegate all the bits of the job I don’t like to.”

you clearly do not work well with others, either as a peer or a manager. They have bent over backwards to create a role you might succeed at. You need to know when you’re well off.

Who manages the person who does all of the bits of you job you refused to do and dropped your hours to avoid? Is it you or another manager?

HR Manager

I wouldn't be losing second's sleep that this would go to a tribunal.

My advice is resign and find a job you want and enjoy.

@Jobque you are not at work to socialise. As a manager you are there to manage, not to be friends with your team. It can be a difficult line to tread.

It is also very unrealistic to expect to carry on doing a job exactly the same way as it has always been done, ever since you were there. Every single job in every single area will go through changes and you either embrace the change and get on with it, or leave.

At the end of the day it is not your place to dictate to your manager what you will and will not do, and what "works for you". They don't care about what works for you. They care about the bigger picture of the whole business and how you fit into that. They need someone who will perform a specific role with specific duties. It is completely unrealistic to think you are in any sort of position to make demands, yes perhaps there is some sort of option to express a preference or make requests but you do not hold the power here.

You sound so rediculous and spoilt it's actually quite funny

💯

Onwards and upwards, OP. This job wasn’t the right fit and you’re sensible to be moving on. Leave it at that.

You sound exceptionally difficult.

You don't have a case for constructive dismissal...you don't like your job. Don't like having to share it, don't want to try the new role, want less hours and less money but not the job...I think resigning is best for all involved.

You burnt your bridges when you turned down the trial.

You could have had the trial then made constructive criticism about the new role and perhaps have tweeked it slightly more in a direction that you enjoy.

Can you cope with being unemployed?
Is your skill set flexible and attractive for other employers?

Your posts are quite inconsistent, You seem to want to be a manger but you don’t want people who work for you interrupting you.
So why didn’t you manage that situation and say let’s all meet before lunch for ten minutes to go over any questions.

It sounds like you want the title of manager but you don’t want to be a manager and I’ve meet many of those type of people, one in particular who caused me a huge amount of stress by not actually helping me in any way with work and then wanting to be mates. And he’s in the job a long time.

OP, you seem to hold your own opinions in very high regard…
Reading between the lines, your time at this company has run its course.

This has to be a reverse?

Anyway, no, you have no case.

I think you'd be happier in a competely different workplace
And no, it's not constructive dismissal; in fact, it sounds as if they've been quite flexible, but your requirements are untenable

When you've worked for a fair old while, going into management can seem to be a natural progression. For some people - me included - it isn't. People and team management is a skill I don't possess. And it seems you don't either. You've said in your opening post that you don't like your team and just 'let them do their own thing.' you've even tried to drop your hours because you are struggling and feel undermined by team players. it is best for the business and for you that you leave management to those who are good at it. My current manager is awesome and I'm very happy to be part of our team under her direction I do feel valued and have made progress despite stepping away from management myself. This isn't constructive dismissal. It might actually be good for you. Life really is too short to be miserable - and make other people miserable - for 40hrs a week. Give it a go. If you don't like it, it's never to late to put yourself first, retrain and find something that actually makes you feel happy and fulfilled.

I agree with everyone else.

OP - it sounds like you've been with the company for a long time and have fallen into a position where you are comfortable - you can cherry pick bits of the job you like, and ignore the bits you don't like, and get paid as a manager without doing a lot of the management responsibilities.
You've been savvy enough to hang onto sole knowledge of some things, and ignore request to pass on the knowledge so it gives you a certain amount of power.

Bad management in the company has meant that no one has so far challenged you, and they've just put up with it and worked round you.

The new restructure has given them the opportunity to reframe your job in a way that it should be worked. You've had a chance to adapt and change, and basically have told them you are not prepared to.
You are better off looking for another job. And be grateful that you've managed to stay there for so long.

It isn't constructive dismissal.

You are very lucky they have not started disciplinary action against you. A job is not created to suit you- an employee works for an employer, to a job description, to meet the needs of the company. Your approach appears to be to pick and choose which bits of the job description you want and don't want to do and work to that.
They have acted appropriately and gone beyond what could be expected of an employer faced with an employee who doesn't want to do the job they were actually employed to do.
If I was your employer, I would be starting disciplinary action with a view to you either doing your job as per description or being dismissed for refusing to do it. It would take a bit of time to go through the stages but you sound a weak employee in terms of flexibility and willingness to adapt and take responsibility for meeting your responsibilities. Long-term, I imagine they have had enough.

You should read yourself back, OP.
You sound like the ultimate nightmare employee, and your company has finally woken up and is managing you out (spectacularly well, too).

Your staff constantly interrupting to ask questions means you, as their manager, have not trained them properly, or sought training for them from senior management.
Delegating all the stuff you don’t want to do to the person who is sharing your role is just vile. You are not a team player.
Constantly repeating how long you have been there is not a justification for leaving you alone to carry on your work ineffectually- it means they’ve finally stopped you getting away with your nonsense.
You’ve openly admitted avoiding doing a part of the job that you’ve are contractually obliged to do. This means you’ve effectively been stealing from the company by taking a salary to do a job you’ve been refusing to do.

The only way you’re going to survive this workplace shakedown is if you completely change your attitude and personality.
If I were you, I’d start looking for another job. Even if you switch to the new role, you won’t last long, as you’re already unhappy with it, and as I say, they’re onto you.

You seem difficult rigid.

You don’t sound like a very good manager. You find the job boring, want to do less but stay in the same role, you don’t like people involved in your job but then you want to give the person you don’t like more so you can cut dow your hours … oh and you like being a manager so you can give people work that you don’t want to do.
How are you actually managing, how are you supporting the growth of the company and those that report to you. You moan that you haven’t been consulted on changes, probably because you as re no uninterested they didn’t bother and assumed you would have nothing positive to contribute. Sounds like you are there because it’s easy and decent money … you are not carrying out your role as you should be. No wonder they want rid of you, you should look elsewhere and do a job you are interested in.

God I feel for the new managers, who have undoubtedly (as has happened to me multiple times) walked in and been made responsible for managing our a difficult, underperforming person because no one has previously been prepared to take them on, and then gets hit with ‘but no issues have ever been raised with me!’ on repeat. You openly admit you’ve been ignoring a core job responsibility because you just don’t want to do it. Saying how long you’ve been there should ‘count’ for something is laughable when you haven’t been doing the whole job during that time!