Constructive dismissal grounds

[Jobque]

Hi I just want some advice on this.

I have worked for my company for a long time and I was promoted into my current job without interview by a previous manager (who doesn’t work there anymore).

The job has changed as the company has changed over the years and new management. I am a manager of a team and told my managers a year ago I felt swamped at work. My team constantly interrupt me all day asking questions and it’s irritating. I asked to drop my hours and they did eventually let me but this meant I had to let someone else train up in parts of my job for when I am not there. I don’t really get on with them, they think they are better than me at my job so I just let them do their thing on their day and I do mine on my day. I don’t really like other people being involved in my job, I don’t think they can do it as well as I can but it’s good to have someone to delegate all the bits of the job I don’t like to.

I think things are fine as they are, but there has been so many changes to how we work now and I feel pushed out. I’ve kept my head down and not really got too involved but it annoys me they don’t consult with me with the decisions.

work are doing a restructure and I’ve been told that they want me doing some different things at work. It’s a bit of a different job title but a lot of the same things I’ve been doing anyway, same pay, same hours etc. I can do the job but I don’t like these changes they seem boring. I get why they are doing it, they say it’s more efficient use of my time as I am experienced but ideally I want to work less hours (cut another day a week) and stay in the same role. It also means the person I don’t get on with is going to get more responsibility and take over some of the stuff I do. My manager says I am doing too many basic jobs and as a manager I need to be contributing more to making the place run better. I do a lot of the basic jobs when we are short staffed but I just don’t think they pay me enough to step up to this new level. They asked me to trial the job I said no.

I said I don’t want the job so said I would leave. They said there is no other job at my level, just the one they want me to do but if I resign I could still come back in a different job (that is also boring) on the less hours I want, less responsibilities but with less pay, and I don’t want that one either and doesn’t seem fair. I want to keep my current job and stay on my pay level.

I told them this sounds like constructive dismissal do you think I have a case?

[Note from MNHQ - OP confirmed later on that this is a reverse - while we don't exactly encourage this kind of thing, we appreciate that posters sometimes do things this way to gain a different perspective, which we could probably all do with from time to time.]

This has to be a joke!

Hahaha … I’m not surprised they are complaining about you. Sounds like you are taking the piss out of both your employer and colleagues.

Now is the time to choose to go with as much dignity as you can. Let it be your choice and don't fight it.

Sounds like your employers have had the patience of a saint with you.

I had a colleague who 'had been there ages' 'knew what she was doing' and wouldn't do anything she found boring.
She was a complete PITA and was left to do her 'chosen tasks' for years without challenge because management knew she was so obtuse that any HR process would be long and painful (basically the managers were too cowardly).
New management came in and Miss Too Boring was managed out in months. Came as a total shock to her as she thought length of service = stellar employee. It did not. It was a relief not to have her can't do attitude in the team.

So I'm not surprised there has been no performance management for you before. But believe me, it will have been considered for years.

Maybe you are lovely in real life but you just don't come across well here at all..I read this that you are very difficult to work with, do you own thing and are inflexible. They are trying to find you work that means you are less involved with other staff..sorry but that's what it seems to me.. Yes knowledge is good and you have been there for years and you don't like the corporate lingo but you don't sound at all professional. Take what they are offering and make it work or leave .... the two choices you have.

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Your role is being made redundant. They need to follow the redundancy process correctly - they’ve got the equivalent role which is fine but if it’s too different then you should ask about redundancy rather than quitting.

You are not as indispensable as you think you are, and you are not performing as a manager.

A manager does more than just holding onto specific knowledge - they look to plan for times when others need to know, and share that knowledge with others.

Things not going well when you are on leave isn't a sign that you are going the job well. It is the opposite.

You are there to benefit the company , not the other way around.

The knowledge you have, you are using as a weapon against the company. A good manager will have the foresight and understanding to share that information with others. That way things don't fall apart when you are not there.

I think you are lucky to have gone as long as you have without being dismissed.

It sounds as though your employer has been very supportive to you over the years. You were promoted without going through a recruitment process, and you have been allowed to reduce your hours to the extent that they have needed to employ someone else to job share with you.

I can't believe that you think it is OK as a manager to give your job share colleague all the jobs you don't like. That is really unreasonable

I think that your employer has been comparing your attitude and output with your job share colleague and they realise that you are being paid a manager's salary but are not really doing the job. Making changes to people's roles as part of a restructure wouldn't be constructive dismissal.

Having read your comments, you are presenting yourself on here as someone who is change resistant.
This rarely bodes well in a corporate environment.

You talk a lot about reducing your hours, sticking to the tasks you’re doing, but wanting more money as a manager if you were to accept your restructured role. You’re already a manager, I’m not sure on what grounds you feel the elevated pay would be due.

OP as someone who claims to manage people at a very basic level it is worrying that you don't understand what constructive dismissal is. You should understand basic HR and line management to support your staff. Coupled with your comments about your team bothering you and your comments about jobs being boring indicates you are not a great people manager yourself. Your employer appears to have bent over backwards to accommodate you but I don't think whatever they do will be enough. You sound very unhappy. Focus your energy on finding something that will suit you better.

This is ridiculous! You have avoided doing a major part of your role because you don't like it and don't want to do it? I'm just amazed that your employer has put up with this for so long.

If this is real, you sound an absolute nightmare of an employee. You don't get to make the rules in the company. I am gobsmacked you just aren't doing things your managers are asking of you because you forget. Why do you think you get to call all the shots?

Tbh I'd probably restructure you out, of I didn't have enough evidence for a straightforward firing.

You need to take a long hard look at your attitude.

You sound like a manager we had. Noone liked her, she was stuck in her ways, never wanted to change anything and made everyone miserable with her behaviour. She also wanted to work less hours but still torture people who report to her and wouldnt let go of her people management. After years, they finally made her redundant ... was a happy day for many.

Echoing others, this sounds like a you problem OP. You do come across as exceptionally difficult and truculent, albeit you might not be aware of that.

I agree with others that your best option is to look for another job. Your employer may well be trying to manage you out, but what they have offered is not grounds for consecutive dismissal.

They will probably be relieved if you leave, given you refuse to do bits of your job because you don’t like them. We all have those!

Look for a new job, leave with some dignity, and take a better attitude to your new role.

It sounds like what is happening at the moment is you are cherry picking the nicest, most interesting and perhaps easiest bits if your job, and as such it doesn't warrant the pay. The reason you like it as it is now is because you've managed to palm off the crap bits.
Every job has crap bits and easy bits and usually it's the crap bits that justify the better pay. I suspect your work no longer justifies your pay grade so they are trying to give you back some bits that better justify the pay.
They are obviously aware that over time an unfair situation has arisen where you've been allowed to pass off the worse bits of the job.

You obviously don't care about doing your job well and being an asset to your employer. Most employers require their staff to document the requirements of their job roles so that other people can fill in during annual leave, sickness etc. All processes should be fully documented. The fact that you revel in the fact that you don't do this is indicative of your attitude and approach to your job.

Working somewhere for a long time isn't a reason to allow an employee to carry on under-performing in their role. How can you think that you are a valuable employee when you have been avoiding doing a major part of your role for ages simply because you don't want to do it?

They're bending over backwards to give you options, what do you mean? Bizarre.

What they ought to do is manage you out as soon as possible. You don't want to do your job, aren't doing all of what's in your job description by the sound of it, and appear to be a pain in the arse.

I had a manager once who sounds like you she even used to tell us if the big boss tried to dismiss her she would claim constructive dismissal. It wasn't at all and doesn't sound like it is for you either if you don't like your job and the salary I'm sure you will have no problem finding a better paid role elsewhere...

You sound like someone I used to work with. Been there years, didn’t adapt to change, wanted to work as few hours as possible, having as little responsibility as possible but genuinely believed they deserved more money too.

Ask yourself, if you went out into the real world to look for another job, would you be able to command the terms and conditions and benefits you want elsewhere?

Remember, no one, absolutely no one is indispensable.

You've been carefully structuring your work around what you enjoy and want to do for some time. You get asked to do things by more senior managers but manage not to. Things are changing, as they do in business, and staff need to change too. They've tried really hard to accommodate you but you're still not happy.
Op, I think at this rate sooner or later you will find yourself managed out. They'll either bite the financial bullet and make you redundant with a careful re-structure, or they'll keep pushing you out of your comfort zone until you resign. You need to accept that your job is evolving and either embrace the change or go elsewhere. You've had all the advice you need and more here, go back, read it and have a think.

Not a snowball’s chance in hell. Constructive dismissal is basically your employer making your working environment/conditions so difficult as to be impossible to work within. That’s not happening here. Your manager has basically told you that the parts of your job you’re doing are too basic and you’re not contributing enough to the running of the place - which is a managers’ job. He/she is very clearly sending you a message that you need to take on board. They’ve offered a trial of the new job which you’ve refused and they’ve even offered you a new job under the restructure if you resign. I think they’ve been more than fair but if none of what they’ve suggested suits you then it’s time to look for a new job, not cast round looking for reasons to sue.

They keep poking their noses in watching me asking me why I am doing the basic day to day jobs of my team but we are short staffed and I like to know what’s going on, and I’m faster than my team at getting the work done so why does this matter? I do forget to do some things the managers ask me to do but it’s not my fault I am always too busy and short staffed they don’t understand how much I get interrupted and keep telling me if I train other people to do it then it will be easier but I don’t have time to train anyone.

Can you not see the issues with what you've said there? This is almost a textbook illustration of how not to be a good manager. On the one hand you keep saying you are too busy, on the other you say you are doing the basic day to day jobs of your team because you're quicker than them. It's absolutely obvious that what you need to do is stop doing the work for them and instead spend the time training your team; they won't get quicker if you never let them do their work, so STOP doing it for them and concentrate on your own. That will be a win-win all round - you aren't wasting your time, they are doing what they are supposed to be doing, you do your own job properly. You can't expect to have a job managing people if you won't manage them.

But I suspect you've been told this several times and you just don't take it in, which is why your employers want to move you sideways.

Please don’t hate me I do apologise it was a reverse and I appreciate the time everyone took to give advice. I am one of the managers and inherited this person who had no JD and controls the workplace completely to their own agenda, unchallenged until now.

I don’t think I went about this in the right way on here - this is exactly how they talk to me. I am struggling so much I am finding it hard to continue to go into work every day with this person and look them in the face. They are so selfish and let everyone around them down constantly I am having a final straw moment and it’s hard to keep my cool. More has happened than this that’s even worse in terms of letting down the people they manage and zero insight. I spend a lot of time trying to protect the business from breaching employment law and I am quite worried about this.

They didn’t get performance managed for multi factor reasons, mostly to to protect their team from their wrath and the fall out having seeing how they treat people (but carefully clever so no one formally complains) it’s cruel and calculated and I know performance management wouldn’t work or have any positive impact. People are afraid of them but don’t want to speak out and it’s my place to protect them. They have been willing and eager to give up parts of their job to other people for a couple of years now until they have left themselves with virtually no responsibility so this is a single track road I cannot see any other route now

Jeez op, that was a waste of time to read 🙄