Racist manager

[tothem]

My glasses are broken, so please forgive any mistakes—everything is blurry.

I’ve been working for a local council for about four months now. My team is small, consisting of seven members: six of us on the same level and one manager, let’s call him John. John’s manager is Karen.

Most of the team, especially Karen, works from home. I still work full-time in the office since I’m still in training. I’m also the only Black person on the team.

I’ve noticed that whenever Karen comes to the office for meetings (which is rare), she never acknowledges my greetings. If I mention something to her, like, “Oh, that desk isn’t working,” she just stares at me without responding. She has never engaged with me at all.

This made me wonder why.

Out of the blue, I received an invitation to a meeting from Karen. I was puzzled, as I wasn’t sure what it was about, and I was a bit concerned. Eventually, I found out the meeting was sent to the whole team.

Unfortunately, I missed the meeting, but my colleagues told me she announced that she was leaving due to redundancy and was visibly upset.

I felt sorry for her and struggled internally about whether to reach out. I eventually sent her a lighthearted, heartfelt message apologizing for missing the meeting and acknowledging her redundancy. She read it but never replied.

A few days later, she came to the office again. This time, I chose to ignore her entirely—I refuse to allow myself to be ignored as she has done to me in the past. I overheard a colleague talking to her about her redundancy, but I didn’t engage.

Her behavior disgusts me, and I’ve been contemplating the right time to bring this up with John or even Karen herself.

Now, I suspect there may be plans for a send-off party for her. My initial thought is to tell John and the team that while I’m available, I won’t be attending because I find Karen rude, unpleasant, and possibly even racist. Alternatively, I could raise this issue with John or HR when the opportunity arises, though I don’t feel inclined to formally call John into a meeting.

What do you think? Should I simply express my reasons for not attending the send-off, or should I file an official complaint with John or HR? She leaving soon but then it will be on record 🤷🏽‍♀️

I'd also add that maybe she has form for poor behaviours or attitude and that's why her position is made redundant over others. Even if it's not an 'official' deciding factor, behaviour and attitude in the workplace absolutely does feed into these decisions.

As pp wrote, as a white person, the only correct response to the accusation of racism should be:

As a white woman I don't think that I can comment on whether your experience is because of your race or not, Op.

Yet here we have white people running around telling a black woman that her experience is wrong.

I get where you’re coming from, and it’s tempting to call her out in that way, but I’d want to approach it in a way that maintains professionalism. Publicly calling her out could escalate things, and I’m not sure that’s the best route. I’d prefer to address the issue calmly but firmly, either directly with her or through proper channels, so it’s handled in a way that doesn’t escalate things further. That idea would be nice, but unfortunately, I’m not confrontational by nature, which is a shame because I wish I could be in situations like this.

Exactly. As a white person, it’s important to acknowledge that I can’t speak on someone else’s experience, especially when it’s shaped by their race. Dismissing or invalidating someone’s lived experience, particularly when it involves race, only perpetuates the problem. It’s crucial to listen and allow people to express their experiences without trying to diminish them. Thank you for understanding and recognizing this

I agree with you. It’s possible that her behavior or attitude has contributed to her redundancy, even if it wasn’t an official deciding factor. Workplace behavior absolutely plays a role in these decisions, whether directly stated or not. It’s an important part of creating a positive work environment, and persistent issues can’t be overlooked. This point has come to my mind several times, which is why I’m more inclined to mention it to HR just to validate if her behavior was a deciding factor in their redundancy decision.

People can just be rude and not gel with a person irrespective of race

Exactly. As a white person, it’s important to acknowledge that I can’t speak on someone else’s experience, especially when it’s shaped by their race. Dismissing or invalidating someone’s lived experience, particularly when it involves race, only perpetuates the problem. It’s crucial to listen and allow people to express their experiences without trying to diminish them. Thank you for understanding and recognizing this

Absolutely OP. This is a daily occurrence unfortunately. White people tying themselves in knots trying to persuade us that racism doesn't exist. They so want to be marginalised, goodness knows why.
You know if Karen's behaviour involves racism, thank goodness she's leaving.

No need to thank me. It's exactly why I fought for the Black Mumsnetters board.

Sure. What's your point?

People can be rude to people who aren't disabled but ableism still exists.

Did you know that some dresses are purple?

Can I ask if you genuinely mean what you posted? I’d appreciate it if you could take some time to read through the entire thread, including my responses, and then reflect on it. Try to put yourself in my shoes and think deeply about the situation. After giving it some thought, I’d appreciate a response that considers the full context of the issue at hand.

I understand how you feel, it is damn rude, but some people are not openly friendly, or lack people skills. I've had many people ignore me, even when I've made an extra effort.
In the past I've had people ignore me due to a whole range of reasons, eg, lack of awareness, being shy and awkward, or because they are just into themselves and / or a bit snooty.
It's been a real bugbear with a few and in the end I've just had to put it down to these reasons
It's hurtful, and I have wanted to confront them. One occasion I did and it made it worse!
Anyway I don't think it would be racist, it's just some people are like this.

@GoodGollyMsMolly

Let me make this clear: I’m not “waving a race card,” I’m calling out behavior that’s been dismissive and harmful. If you can’t acknowledge the reality of racial dynamics in these situations, then maybe it’s because you’ve never had to experience it. You say you see “troublemakers,” but the real issue here is the refusal to even consider the possibility that there’s more to this than just someone being “unpleasant.”

The whole issue I’m raising wouldn’t make sense at all if I hadn’t explicitly described it the way I did. Skin color was used in context, but you’ve decided to jump on the bandwagon of dismissing everything in order to discredit my valid experience, stand up for racism, and then call me racist. This is laughable.

And for the record, I never referred to anyone as “the white this or that.” I described the dynamics and context I’m experiencing. If you can’t engage with the issue on those terms, then maybe it’s not me you should be criticizing. I’m here to address the behavior, not sugarcoat it, and I’m not going to back down just because some people are uncomfortable facing it.

I'm not white, I've experienced extreme racism to the point that I had to literally run for my life. Maybe that's why I don't just so easily say unpleasantness is racism.

You do you, OP. but don't be surprised if you keep going down the path of seeing colour (hello, your title already concludes she Is a racist!) it will bite back. Like I said it is a very serious accusation so thinm very hard. That kind of accusation colours people's view on yourself. Many on here already said she might just be a bitch, she might be racist, but only she knows that.

This point has come to my mind several times, which is why I’m more inclined to mention it to HR just to validate if her behavior was a deciding factor in their redundancy decision.

Not heard of privacy? HR absolutely won’t disclose to you anything of that nature.

I'm not white either. I used to work in the City and have experienced racism (see my earlier post about flagging up racist behaviour), sexism and sexual harassment.
I'm all for people being held to account but in this case, I wouldn't do anything further than what I can do personally.
She may very well be racist but she hasn't behaved in any way beyond being unprofessional, rude and unfriendly.
If you had to continue to work with her then that's a different story.
No one should have to work with such a person and it should definitely be taken further

Like I said before, within industries, word gets around, people know each other and before you know it, you're the one with the reputation of seeing smoke without any fire.
It's unfortunate but that's the reality.

I am not asking them to decline anything to and I am not expecting to. When reported, it is left to them to validated themselves

I felt sorry for her and struggled internally about whether to reach out. I eventually sent her a lighthearted, heartfelt message apologizing for missing the meeting and acknowledging her redundancy. She read it but never replied.

You still haven’t answered why you didn’t attend the meeting. I’m also interested in what this “heartfelt message” said. Your use of “eventually” is telling as well.

I’ve already mentioned that I had valid reasons for missing the meeting, and at the time, I communicated this to the appropriate people. My ‘heartfelt message’ expressed genuine regret for missing the meeting and acknowledged the difficult circumstances surrounding her redundancy. The timing of when I sent it doesn’t change the fact that I made an effort to be kind and professional, even though she had always ignored me long before the meeting. Missing the meeting has no bearing on her behavior toward me at all. I also wonder why you’re so hell-bent on knowing why I missed it—it feels like you’re trying to shift focus from the real issue here.

Yes, I used the word ‘eventually’ because I genuinely struggled to send her a kind message about her redundancy, given how she hadn’t been nice to me at all. However, I chose to remain professional and be the bigger person. It wasn’t an easy message to send, but I eventually summoned the courage to do so, as I felt it was the right thing to do despite her previous behavior toward me. Her lack of reply only cemented her rudeness on a final level.

Pls kindly explain what is telling about the use of the word eventually pls

Again, your manager’s manager called a meeting. You didn’t attend. Anything beyond a day later apologising for not attending is pretty unprofessional, and eventually suggests it may have been days or weeks later.

Adding to it something about being sorry to hear about their redundancy when you may have been tardy with apologising for the meeting may not have gone over brilliantly. If “heartfelt” means “gushy” when you have next to no relationship, and it’s probably hard for her to accept her job going when you’ve only just started, I can see why she might be frosty.

Thank you for your perspective, but I think there’s been some misunderstanding. I did apologize for missing the meeting and expressed genuine sympathy for the redundancy situation. While I may not have a longstanding relationship with her, basic courtesy and empathy are not contingent on how long someone has worked together.

As for the meeting, I wasn’t tardy in my apology; I reached out after learning what it was about. If offering kindness and acknowledgment is viewed as “gushy,” I’ll have to respectfully disagree. My concern here isn’t about that interaction but the ongoing lack of acknowledgment and respect I’ve experienced.

And for the 1001st time, the meeting I missed has no bearing whatsoever on the matter at hand. It’s frustrating to see people like yourself looking for ways to diminish the actual issue or dismiss my experience as unfounded. If you don’t have anything sensible or logical to contribute, I respectfully ask you to stay away from this thread.

I will not allow a serious matter to be derailed by irrelevant points. If you’ve missed the context or haven’t read the thread thoroughly, I suggest you do so before jumping to conclusions.

Again, the meeting has no relevance to the matter at hand, and I hope this clears up any confusion.

How did you come to the conclusion that my apology was tardy? I never shared the content of that message here, so I’m curious how you arrived at that assumption. Perhaps your imagination has gone a bit pear-shaped wonky.

Or is Karen on here herself and trying to muster some kind of defense? Or are you Karen or her friend? Either way, I’d be genuinely interested to know how you arrived at the conclusion that my apology was tardy. Please share your reasoning.

I’m going off what you have posted here, after almost 20 years of dealing with “squabbles” between individuals (and very serious cases of discrimination) in HR.

You are sharing from your perspective. Golden rule is to triangulate the stories. We don’t have “Karen’s” version of events. So, I’m pointing out how your behaviour may have inadvertently contributed to the situation, making it an issue between 2 individuals rather than racism. You’re the one using “flowery” adjectives to describe your approach rather than sharing specifics.

But as you know it all, I’ll save my energy for those prepared to listen.