Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

Maybe she just doesn't want to faff around painting a layer of crap onto her face everyday just because misogyny says she should

It's not misogyny is it?

Or it implies a different focus for her non work time.

Seriously, I would be shocked to the core if anyone told me I looked unprofessional or exhausted because I don't wear make up. What's wrong with the natural look? I shower, I wash my hair, I moisturise, what more do you want?

It implies nothing of the sort.

it’s simply that she doesn’t want to spend time putting make up on. I would far rather have an extra 30 mins in bed than get up and faff around with make up.

if make up = making an effort we’re back to the question as to why men don’t seem to have to “make an effort”?

You do hold misogynistic beliefs if you think a woman is not professional purely on the basis of whether she applies make up or not and if you equate a woman daring to attend work without make-up to an unkempt man.

Oh I’d be sending an email to the manager to confirm the contents of the conversation.

Then I’d be speaking to a solicitor about a sex discrimination claim. Is wearing makeup a requirement for men. No? Sex discrimination.

Get into an employment solicitor asap.

Goldfish care is hard graft...if the plan is to keep them alive for more than, say, 3 months 🤣🤣

It takes five minutes to do a full face.

Men are expected to make an effort. Shaving regularly, keeping their hair tidy. It's a shame you have such low standards for yourself.

men aren’t obliged to be clean shaven. they don’t get lectures at work for not making an effort or being presentable if they choose a beard.

i keep my hair tidy. If that’s what making an effort is then I’m good 👍

The reason that at age 50 I have such good skn is because when I was younger I rarely wore make up. It doesn’t feel nice on the skn hence I will tolerate it for short periods of time if I’m going out but nit fir everyday at work.
you can be very well kept and not wear make up.

Not wearing make up = having low standards?

Your comments get funnier and funnier!

The reason that at age 50 I have such good skn is because when I was younger I rarely wore make up. It doesn’t feel nice on the skn hence I will tolerate it for short periods of time if I’m going out but nit fir everyday at work.
you can be very well kept and not wear make up

It may not be the reason, probably more to do with genetics.
Me and my sister have great skin so far, I'm 59 she is 55. We have worn make up since our early teens.
My sister used to do her make up like the New Romantics and spent hours putting it on!
I wear it virtually everyday, even at home by myself because I like playing around with different looks.

There isn’t a single situation where you need to wear makeup, unless you’re a clown or an actor.

you cannot be serious 😂😂😂

no, you really can’t be.

That's not a link. I'm in my 50s and I regularly wear a natural look. My skin is good. No redness or blemishes, not prematurely aged. My mother who never wore make up could have said the same. No connection. It's not the middle ages. Make up isn't ruining people's skin. Often it has spf, vitamins, moisturisers etc

Wow, I’m another who would like to know when I need to wear make up.

clearly I have spent most of my adult life failing as I gave up with make up when I was around 30 although it doesn’t seem to have impacted my career progression or ability to deliver presentations.

Don't give a scooby how long it takes. I don't do it. And just because we don't all slap coloured grease* on our faces every day doesn't mean we have low standards for ourselves, thanks, how fucking dare you.

*Description of the Blessed Germaine Greer.

There's an older lady in a town near me who is locally well known for dressing immaculately in Victorian costume - she looks like she's stepped off a traditional box of Quality Street at all times, even when just going to the supermarket.

She does look impressive, and it's obviously her choice to do this; so all great. However, does that mean that all of the other women going around in jeans and a plain top are just clearly not putting in the effort that they could/should do? (Men seem to get a free pass here). Are they betraying the fact that they must be exhausted - if they're too tired to bother? I must stress that she herself has never expressed this opinion, afaik.

There's nothing wrong with having a preferred look/standard for yourself, but this does not mean that other people are somehow wrong for not making that same choice.

Most children learn from an early age that not everybody is exactly the same as they are, and people have different choices and preferences in personal things that don't matter to others such as hairstyle, makeup use (or not), if you have pets or not, what colour car you have etc. and this is normal and to be celebrated.

It's a very immature - and actually controlling - attitude to genuinely believe that other people who do minor, inconsequential things differently from you are 'wrong' - and that they need to learn to do 'the right' thing i.e. the same as what you choose to do.

So are you saying that, as long as a woman wears a full face of makeup, she doesn't need to bother at all if she has messy, unwashed hair - because the makeup is the prescribed way for a woman to show that she isn't exhausted?

What about the women who like to have clean, tidy hair, but who don't want to use makeup - are they just 'wrong' and misinformed as to how to do womanning properly?

Its misogyny 101

Wearing make up has nothing whatsoever to do with standards low or otherwise.

Ask your senior what make up he wears when he’s at work. Don’t get me wrong, I believe in looking professional when the job calls for it, but that shouldn’t equate to wearing make up, men don’t need make up to look professional, why should we? You’re appearance bears no reflection on your ability to do your job

I present myself clean and tidy for work, with my hair washed and styled away from my face. I wear my uniform, in the way described by my employer’s uniform guide (airline.) My shoes are regularly polished, my work bag is clean, my nails clean and trimmed tidily. These are all things The men do too to present themselves well for work. If I want to
wear make up, I can within a range of permitted colours and looks, but here is the recent new thing in our uniform guide - so can the men! It also says that make up
is not compulsory for men or women.

The application of make up has no relevance at all to someone’s ability to do their job. It does not reflect someone’s professionalism. Anyone (male or female) who thinks telling someone to put a bit of make upon is ok is out of order, the end. It’s not ok to comment on someone’s appearance unless they have a ‘look’ which comes with the job description and they are not complying with it. Even airlines are ok with women not wearing make up these days (I haven’t worn make up for work in 25 years.)

It is misogynistic to expect women to wear make up for work. It suggests that her primary value lies in her appearance, which needs to be artificially enhanced to a greater extent than a similar man.

Unless you’re selling cosmetics I see no reason to have to wear. Seems pretty sexist to me.

This this this!!

I read a case a while ago where a woman took her company to court after they asked her to wear makeup & heels, & I believe she won.

@ZebraGiraffe12 They cannot legally ask you to do this.