Make up at work

[ZebraGiraffe12]

I posted previously regarding achieving a promotion and I am super happy about this and I love the promotion. However, I have had a meeting today about a complaint from one of our senior managers. Before coming back from maternity leave I liked to be very glamourous, high heels, make up, etc. However, since coming back from maternity I prefer a nice flat shoe or a small heel and minimal or no make up. If I am at home doing video conferences I will rarely wear make up, when travelling I will wear a bit (lots of photos taken).

Last week I was taking part in a training conference for managers across the world. It was a 5 day conference and on 4 of the days I wore no make up, on the second day I was presenting at the conference and decided to wear some make up. I have just had a meeting with a senior manager who has told me it was very unprofessional of me to not wear make up and that my face is part of selling the company and it needed to look professional. I feel absolutely awful and cried all through my lunch.

Someone please reassure me that I am not in the wrong and the senior manager at my work is. I haven't seen him since I was 4 months pregnant so I know my look has changed a lot.

Thank you

I was about to say the same as @LittleRedY0shi

@ZebraGiraffe12 every time something like this occurs, ask them to put it in writing to you can ensure you are clear on what you are taking away from the conversation. Make sure you note the date and time of the conversation in your phone/a notebook.

They are unlikely to put it in writing and if they try and pull you up with it face to face following your request without putting it in writing, you can say, "sorry I believe I did ask you to clarify in writing so I could be 100% clear". Again, note the date and time and rough jist of conversation. This time, write an email and ask them to clarify their position relating to makeup so you can be clear and have something to refer back to, following being spoken to on X date and XX date. They may ignore this but you will have evidence.

It is discrimination as this is unlikely to extend to male colleagues.

I'm not sure what your line of work is, if you worked for a makeup/facial aesthetics brand where men have to do this too, it would be more understandable.

I'm not sure about this. I wear make up to work, I look like I've been exhumed without it, but we're all different and plenty of people look just fine without it

You're just as bad as the dick manager!

There is no requirement whatsoever for any woman to wear makeup at work. It's entirely her choice.

I would want this episode documented in some way. I wouldn't take a grievance because you still have to work with the fucker.

You need also to arm yourself with some firm responses in case he says anything like this again, eg "so where is your make-up?" or something along those lines.

Personally speaking, though this probably comes from a lifetime of wearing makeup for work pre-Covid, I do still wear it for meetings F2F. I feel more professional and confident, rightly or wrongly. I don't wear it every day any more and I have abandoned heels, and am happy to do Teams calls without!

Sexist beyond words. I would have responded can I have that in writing please. I would also have asked if he intends to do the same as it’s unprofessional without it. Interested to know how old he is and if the job role is beauty related.

‘People’? Or just women? My dh sometimes looks like he’s been exhumed without makeup. To my knowledge nobody has ever taken him aside and told him he’d look more professional with a dab of lipstick and concealer.

And yet this has happened to me several times over about 25 years of working for companies. Along with being asked if I’m pregnant because I ‘had a belly’, told by a male colleague he could see my bra strap through my shirt, and asked if I’d ever broken my nose because it looked like a nose belonging to someone of a certain ethnicity. (It wasn’t put like that, obviously)

I work for myself now, deep in the countryside and never see anyone who is not only concerned with the business at hand. Its bliss.

Unless male staff members are also being told they look "unprofessional" without makeup, this is sexism and you should raise a formal complaint about sexist discrimination.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you, it's completely sexist and discriminatory.

HR complaint.

ZebraGiraffe12 I had a very senior manager who was incredibly professional, very smart and well turned out. Always immaculate. She was amazing at her job.
She didn't wear any makeup besides lipstick. And l imagine anyone who'd said anything to her about that (very male dominated work place, certainly for senior management) would have been given very short shrift.
Makeup had nothing to do with how she did her job.
If anyone has a problem with you not wearing makeup, that is their problem. Not yours.

I cannot believe that in 2024 some jumped up little prick thinks he can say this to a women in the workplace! Outraged on your behalf.

It depends how much you've let yourself go, in my opinion, honestly.
If you approach everything with your hair pulled back in an elastic band and you look a state I can see where he's coming from. It doesn't look particularly professional if you're not smart and not making an effort. Not sure the high heels are particularly relevant though.

Does that apply to men too?

She’s not asking for accommodation and my assertion that the fact she is now a mum being relevant, is on a point of law, and nothing else. From a discriminatory point of view they are treading on her rights as a woman and a mother. Yes, I agree that she should not be expected to wear make up and heels regardless of whatever else is going on in her life, but the fact that this manager is the one making the distinction between the ‘before and after’ has everything to do with it. It’s discriminatory and his comments would be considered harassment.

What is there in the OP’s post that leads you to think she’s ‘let herself go’, or looks a state ? She no longer wears make up or high heels. Doesn’t mean she’s scruffy. And wherever he’s ’coming from’ he’s at odds with the law. If they don’t require men to wear make up and high heels as part of dress code, then they shouldn’t be requiring women to do it either.

Mm I think your manager was bonkers to say this out loud to you. He clearly could have thought it but he didn't need to say it out loud in todays world.
I do admire your confidence Z I have rosacea and while I may not wear makeup every day , I would definitely feel more put together with it in and I wouldn't dream of presenting at a conference without it.
Of course you shouldn't have to but in my company as pretty much everyone else does for big corporate events, it probably would stand out if someone didn't .

I think makeup makes you look more professional

Men don't have to wear it to look professional, so neither do women.

I don't disagree that you can look nice if you can apply it well. I can't, so I only wear absolute basics when I go into the office.

Men should look professional too. Wearing make-up isn't required, having clean teeth, brushed hair and clean (and non-smelly) clothes is.

I don't like strappy tops and flip flops in the office

The Equality Act 2010 makes it clear that dress codes for men and women are similar. So if the dress code for men doesn’t ask for them to wear make up or high heels, then they can’t mandate that women do so. It’s that simple.

That's a lot of make up. Also make up is so toxic to the skin and will age you faster, insisting women apply toxic chemicals to their face or they won't look "professional" is pretty wild. There's seems to be an automatic thought that if women don't have make up on they must have an unwashed face, greasy hair and be dressed like trash.

Perhaps he would like you to submit expenses claims for professionally applied makeup on work days? Since it's a professional requirement and everything... Honestly, certain men have absolutely no clue how expensive and time consuming it can be to appear 'neutral' because they haven't given it any thought. Of course it's an illegal request and falls foul of discrimination laws. You haven't done anything unprofessional here, but your management definitely has.

I agree. I don't wear make up except for a bit of mascara. I think people should be happy to look at my natural face!

Funny really, I've seen lots of people with so much make up on it looks more like they're going clubbing than doing a professional job but I recognise that's my personal preference and wouldn't dream of saying anything so long as they're doing a good job.

What a shit comment!!

What led you to the assumption that not wearing heels and make-up equates to "letting yourself go"??!

@Chlo6 funny because I've worn makeup since I was 16 and regularly get told I look 18, when I'm 24!

It's a case of looking after yourself and being proud of how you look. The male equivalent would be an overgrown beard, messy hair, sloppy moustache, stains on his tie

There’s absolutely no evidence that modern makeup is toxic, stop scaremongering.

If you believe that fine, don’t wear it, but there’s no need to judge those who choose to wear it, as in ‘That’s a lot of makeup’, call it ‘toxic chemicals’ or present your beliefs as unassailable fact.

And nobody here has suggested that a woman who doesn’t wear makeup must be unwashed and look like trash. Where are you getting that from?