DH's colleague thwarting flex working request

[mamabeeboo]

Hi all

We are due twins in 8 weeks time, really excited/nervous/stressed, but trying to prepare as much as we can. 😁

DH works in two different shift patterns alternating weekly. One week 6-2pm, next week 9-5pm, then back to 6am.

The plan for the twins is for DH to submit a flexible working request, where he can do 6-2pm shift indefinitely. So we can keep nursery costs down by paying for half day for the twins until 1pm. I can take my lunch break until DH gets back. This works for us financially, for obvious reasons.

The flex working request means his colleague is stuck on the later shift, which is the "worse shift" since you don't have a free afternoon, you are stuck on your own finishing everything etc etc. No real reason other than it's a bit of an inconvenience.

Question - what do we need to be aware of when submitting a flexi working request? Is there anything we can explain on the request to make sure that feedback from colleague is not a reason for a no? Does management even have to share the request to colleagues to get some understanding on how this would be received? Ideally we would like to keep it confidential.

Of course manager will consider the impact on the team, but technically 'colleague doesn't like it' isn't a reason for a decline according to the gov website. But he can make life a bit difficult for DH and kick off quite a bit. He seems to be quite a rowdy person from the few times I have met him.

Just a thought but the nurseries round here "sell" full days only as then if they did mornings, especially for twins they'd be left with 2 spaces in an afternoon - have you looked into this?

Also as a side note a childminder is likely to be cheaper and more flexible with this type of arrangement

If your request is granted that is!!

My first thought would be to have an honest chat with my colleague and see if they would agree.

I can't imagine not having a chat with them. It's extremely selfish.

Does your husband even cares about team player and work environment? Or just your financial life?

Your choice of the word “thwarting” makes it seem like you are the protagonist in some sort of grand adventure and your DH’s colleague is the antagonist. But you are not the main protagonist, even if you are having twins. Your husband’s colleague may have his own reasons for wanting to do particular shifts.

I think you are much better off doing as other people have suggested- asking for a set 3 days each week to be the 6-2 shift, and that will still net you a reduction on fees, if you plans work out. Perhaps you could drop one afternoon a week (obviously that depends a lot on your job) and then it's only one afternoon to pay for/cover?

As others have said, if the colleague has a certain working pattern in his contract, he can challenge a decision to change that, but perhaps he'd also prefer fixed days than a week on/week off as that makes it easier to plan and commit to things?

But it would be better to put in the request with the best chance of success, as you can only put in one every 12 months.

An alternative could be to ask for a set shift pattern for, say, 6 months? Rather than indefinitely?

I really don’t think many, if any employers would sign off on this.

It also sounds like you have a massive downer on the colleague that would
be impacted. Perhaps it’s not a case of him being inconvenienced by always working the afternoon shift because he doesn’t like it, but perhaps he uses those afternoons to provide an alternative to childcare for his own children on the days he does the morning shift, perhaps he looks after elderly relatives on a rota basis with siblings that would be hugely impacted by a change in work pattern. There’s a whole host of reasons why it might not just be him “not liking” a change to his hours but a genuine inconvenience. And yes, you couldn’t have known you would conceive twins and yes the financial burden of that is greater all at one time but you can’t expect others to sacrifice big things like working hours.

What if the colleagues wife has triplets, does his wife then get to choose your husband's shifts permanently?

We all know the benefits of a flexible working life. But people are missing the crucial point that you have to persuade your workplace that it's fully workable and won't have an impact on the team or a cost to the employer.

I think a lot of people would prefer 9-5 especially if they have kids / school run but if colleague doesn’t Id ask for fixed days 3 early / 2 late or vice versa.

Yeah- another reason why they may not approve a permanent fixed shift pattern is that they can't offer parity to other colleagues- they're setting a precedent that they couldn't offer to someone else....

I’m sorry but you are being very unreasonable here. Why should the colleague have to work the less desirable shifts just because you have twins? It’s nothing to do with him. I have twins myself so I do know how hard it is. I had to give up my job which obviously isn’t ideal, but equally I wouldn’t have expected any of my colleagues lives to change to accommodate me. I ended up finding a new job working evenings to make it work, so we didn’t pay for any childcare.

Op- congratulations on the twins.

My company's flexi-time request form does ask you to put other options if your preferred choice is declined - so do include set days as an option.

Personally, if my colleague put in a request to do set Mon-Weds 6-2 and Thurs-Fri 9-5 (so I get later start on Mon plus early finish on Thurs and Fri), then I might consider it, provided there was a review after 12 months.

This thread has made me laugh.

Someone else has already posted this, but have you checked if nursery places would be available for these places as you would be asking for 2 x half days and they may prefer to fill full days

There's a thread at the moment about whether we have become more entitled in recent years.

This post certainly illustrates this.

What if the colleagues wife has triplets, does his wife then get to choose your husband's shifts permanently?

@Turfwars you beat me to it!

OP has it occurred to you that the colleague may have arranged childcare/other commitments around their existing (established) shift pattern?

... usually the person that does this later shift leaves early because everything is pretty much done by 4pm, so the extra hour is spent paid whilst you go home
Your DH's company will be delighted to hear they can save 5 hours a week x 52 weeks a year in wages!

ACAS website lists the reasons, by law, that a request can be turned down for. One of these is if "you cannot reorganise the work among other staff".

If the colleague's contract says that they have a mixed shift pattern, then that other employee's contract would need to be varied to accommodate your DH's flexible working request. The employee gets their own say in whether that happens or request compensation for the change in terms, which then gives the employer another reason to refuse the request - it will cost the business too much.

Also bear in mind that the colleague could also be considering that they prefer the early shift and could put in the same request.

I suspect that even with the best written request, the chances of it being granted are very, very unlikely. If it is refused, or as a compromise, then perhaps a conversation could be had with the colleague to suggest a split week shift, rather than every other week, so at least you could have fixed shorter days at nursery each week.

It is worth also considering, however, whether a nursery will accept part days. They want full days ideally, and having two babies only doing half days means that to be at full capacity they'd have to find another two babies wanting the opposite half days. Don't be surprised therefore if the nursery turns you down for part days.

Is anyone else fascinated by what constitutes a "niche skill" which
a. Doesn't pay a premium rate
b. the company survived without for 4 years while recruiting

If the other colleague is as difficult as suggested, and the skill set is reasonably rare, then the manager has to weigh up the unhappiness of the difficult colleague against the possibility (only that at this stage) of losing a trained employee.

Choosing what is probably for many people the preferred shift I expect may count against the OPs DH.

Unbelievable. Do you really think this is fair on the colleague? What if they had a kid and had demanded your dh works every late shift. Your childcare costs is not their issue.

Same! 'Shifts'.. something engineering or medical?
This niche job also only has 2 people so what happens when one goes on leave?
Unfortunately for you OP @HurryShadow is correct. There's no way for you to word a request that guarantees acceptance.

I think it’s a really unfair request and I imagine it will be declined. I’ve seen much more reasonable requests declined in my own workplace and that’s with the employee having good union representation.

it’s probably worth looking at your other options.

They don't have to. You can allow it for one employee but not another. That's why if you get pregnant it's a good idea to get in early with your request while on mat leave to get in there before someone else.

Does the 6-2 include an hour for lunch?

What about negotiating compressed hours instead? Where (if reasonable and safe) your DH works 3 x 10 hour days (plus breaks so 6am till 5pm) and drops 5 hours a week but is off 2 full days a week?

Then you could negotiate compressed hours for alternate days with your employer - perhaps compress into 4 meaning that your twins go into nursery 2 full days a week (which might be easier to book)

Your DH's colleague could keep working his shift pattern with no change at all to him.

.

Of course, it could be that the other person hates the early mornings and likes knocking off an hour early when he can. Although he may have children of his own to go home and look after on those days.

Are you sure the nursery will do half days?