Said something 'offensive' about sex/gender at work, meeting on Wednesday. Hand hold and advice needed.

[Grubble]

I've NC and I'm going to change some minor details to avoid outing.

I hope this is the right place to post - I'm after help about the work/employment issues I'm facing, rather than anything to do with the sex/gender debate.

Here goes:
I do MMA and am 'senior level'. The gym I train at is mostly men. Men and women don't spar together. There are only two other 'senior' women at my gym that I can spar with. If we find a class that two of us will be at, we'll both agree to definitely get to that class so we get chance to spar.

Last week, I declined an evening event at work because I'd booked a sparring session with one of these women.

A colleague asked me why I wasn't going to the event. I explained. As I was explaining I said "Obviously men and women don't spar with each other so when there's a chance for me to spar with one of the senior women, I take it".

A couple of other colleagues were standing around and heard the conversation. One of them said "Why obviously?" and I answered - men are bigger, men are heavier, men's bodies are shaped/composed differently, there's lots of holding/grabbing, men can't fully throw themselves into sparring with women so its a bit of a waste of time for them, and ultimately its just gym policy anyway.

Today I've received an email from HR asking me to attend a meeting on Wednesday about 'offensive comments' I made last week. I've followed HR up this morning and they've told me that my 'offensive comments' were about my explanation of men/women not sparring with each other.

The lady in HR said its likely to be a informal chat to identify why my comments were offensive and to 'find a way through' (her exact words). She said it didn't look like there'd be any question of formal disciplinary action.

So, basically I've been summoned to a bollocking.

I've worked here 9 years and have an impeccable record. I've never been told off or had any sort of HR intervention before. So I'm not sure what to do or what to expect. I'm not in a union.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on the situation. What should I expect on Wednesday? How should I handle it? I'm completely clueless. Thank you!

TLDR: Been summoned for a bollocking on Wednesday because I told colleagues why men/women don't spar together at my MMA gym. What should I do?

I wouldn't be confrontational but I'd put the ball in their park.

"It's gym policy that I was quoting. Can I clarify I've been summoned for an informal chat because me quoting gym policy and the reasons they have this policy is considered offensive?"

Because if that's the case then most of us could be summoned for a chat just for pointing out they don't let males over 8yo in female changing rooms or toilets in any public space!!!!

And it's not just gym policy. At Olympic level you have separate male and female categories - and it's always for biological reasons.

This, and whatever you do don't let the conversation veer into a discussion about trans.

Good luck @Grubble rooting for you

Whoever reported you is bonkers, as is HR for taking it seriously. This is about safety. I used to fence competitively and I absolutely did spar with men, but it's much safer in fencing because you've got all that protective gear on, and there's something in it for both sides too. In MMA it's a complete no brainer not to have mixed sparring.

That doesn't surprise me.

My ds is a classified para swimmer. Therefore slower than males his age by default.

But he is still quicker than woman his own age despite at 12/13yo girls being quicker than boys due to the natural effects of age and puberty.

People's stupidity around not creating some perceived offence around gender seems to have meant everyone forgets that biology doesn't respect thought processes!

This is why HR have the reputation they do.

For sure the teenage boys that are my weight might be stronger than me.

But my point was more about ground work (like wrestling) - its massively inappropriate for a woman in her mid-30s to be rolling around on the floor with teenage boys. I don't want it. They don't want it.

So its not just about sex, there's also an age and safe-guarding issue too.

This is fabulous - the three C's, I love it!

And just stick to the 3 however tempting it would be to add a 4th and call HR cunts 🤣

Blimey, your HR team sound like they need more work to do.

Please ensure you take a witness to the meeting and preferably record it. It is likely you will need to raise a grievance after the meeting.

Grubble I was agreeing with your point about different ages and different stages of development. I was agreeing that it's understandable you'd feel uncomfortable rolling around with teen boys!

Sorry haven't read the full thread only your post - apologise if repeating earlier stuff

but if you are a member of a union, I would take a representative with you or someone else with you who is sensible, educated and reliable to take a full noted of what is said - to be witness basically.

Or even a lawyer if you feel like it but at this stage that maybe ramping it up too much.

This is absolutely ridiculous but IME where you have ridiculous shit from HR, it is often the first step on to a slippery slope where the employer starts to look for more material to justify a ridiculous position.

So you need to be in a position to be able to give your own backed up account of what happens at this meeting in case of future problemes - the best way to do that is to have your own "witness"

Your witness should be specifically tasked with writing everything everyone says down so as well as being someone who is coherent and articulate, they should also be someone able to take a good note.

Yes, I got you now. Sorry, I'm trying to keep up with replies, reading all sorts about sport regulations, reading tribunal verdicts in the sex/gender area. And trying to keep my job ticking along. Sorry, I misread your post initially

If that's all you said, that's madness. Of course you didn't say anything wrong. You literally stated a fact.

😂

Of course he is 🙄 No bloody skin in the game, makes no difference to him, but he's happy to give Women's rights away. He can get lost.

Wishing you all the best for your 'chat' with HR.

I give up no offence here it’s a gym policy and safety issue. Nothing to do with trans ffs society has gone mad just mad.

I'd ask the biggest, most muscle bound man from the gym, to accompany me and ask the HR woman to spar with him for 5 minutes. See if that might clue HR in a bit.
You can also remind HR about the female MMA fighter who had her skull fractured by a trans fighter. Ask HR why you should be expected to risk your life for the benefit of someone elses ideological belief.

Exactly that. You have nothing at all to apologise for

Ugh. I'm sorry. I feel your confusion and anxiousness, I was recently brought up to HR (not for anything I said but someone feeling they had not been trained properly). It was the first time in 25 years I have had to face something like that. It was mortifying. You'll get through it. I guess we all need to learn to be very strategic with our conversations.

I’d give them zero account of your words. Let them tell you what the women said and let them tell you why that was offensive.

It's actually not a no-brainer. I have never heard of an MMA gym that enforces single-sex sparring in any of its disciplines (MMA isn't one thing - there's a striking element which can come from boxing, Muay Thai, karate etc, and a grappling element, which can be BJJ, wrestling, judo. Most people train the striking and the grappling disciplines separately, but mixed sex sparring is common in both.

Many gyms do offer women-only classes but they're not enforced.

I don't understand how it's offensive but I also don't understand the gym policy.

I also do a martial art that's pretty brutal, but we absolutely all spar. You can practise skill without hitting as hard as you can. You practise the things you're not as good at when sparing with someone "easier" you practise defence and taking a bloody punch when sparing with someone bigger and moving. Only sparing with people like you feels limiting. But hey it's your gym policy. I don't see how it's offensive.