Said something 'offensive' about sex/gender at work, meeting on Wednesday. Hand hold and advice needed.

[Grubble]

I've NC and I'm going to change some minor details to avoid outing.

I hope this is the right place to post - I'm after help about the work/employment issues I'm facing, rather than anything to do with the sex/gender debate.

Here goes:
I do MMA and am 'senior level'. The gym I train at is mostly men. Men and women don't spar together. There are only two other 'senior' women at my gym that I can spar with. If we find a class that two of us will be at, we'll both agree to definitely get to that class so we get chance to spar.

Last week, I declined an evening event at work because I'd booked a sparring session with one of these women.

A colleague asked me why I wasn't going to the event. I explained. As I was explaining I said "Obviously men and women don't spar with each other so when there's a chance for me to spar with one of the senior women, I take it".

A couple of other colleagues were standing around and heard the conversation. One of them said "Why obviously?" and I answered - men are bigger, men are heavier, men's bodies are shaped/composed differently, there's lots of holding/grabbing, men can't fully throw themselves into sparring with women so its a bit of a waste of time for them, and ultimately its just gym policy anyway.

Today I've received an email from HR asking me to attend a meeting on Wednesday about 'offensive comments' I made last week. I've followed HR up this morning and they've told me that my 'offensive comments' were about my explanation of men/women not sparring with each other.

The lady in HR said its likely to be a informal chat to identify why my comments were offensive and to 'find a way through' (her exact words). She said it didn't look like there'd be any question of formal disciplinary action.

So, basically I've been summoned to a bollocking.

I've worked here 9 years and have an impeccable record. I've never been told off or had any sort of HR intervention before. So I'm not sure what to do or what to expect. I'm not in a union.

I wonder if anyone has any advice on the situation. What should I expect on Wednesday? How should I handle it? I'm completely clueless. Thank you!

TLDR: Been summoned for a bollocking on Wednesday because I told colleagues why men/women don't spar together at my MMA gym. What should I do?

Power to the sisterhood!! (if we're allowed to say that any more?!)

Fair play for women has lots of stuff on sport No need to mention the transgender aspect, the basics are that it's men vs women.
https://fairplayforwomen.com/campaigns/sports-campaign/

@Grubble how are you meant to learn and develop your skills against heavier, stronger, or faster opponents, if you're only ever allowed to roll with women you're physically matched with? That's not the point of BJJ at all, and given there are still comparatively few women in the sport, it must dramatically narrow your range.

I know some men don't want to roll with women, and vice versa, but I have honestly never heard it being a gym rule, ever.

Except women, it seems.

unless he really thinks that men are underdogs 🙄

I knew it would be a man before you even said so. I know the type.

ah, just seen your reply. I assumed BJJ because you talked about the 'grabbing and holding and wrestling about on the floor' as being the main issue, which as you will know is pretty 99.9% of what BJJ is. Apols.

Cis-terhood? 😝

I’d go in grey rock and calm. Poor HR is just ticking a box after some plonker heard you talking about gender and got on their high horse. You were explaining gym policy.

Another thing to consider when this is over, is how you talk around colleagues in future. I'd be tempted to loudly refuse to answer what you are doing on the weekend/anything not directly work related,
"...because last time you were reported and dragged in to HR over something completely innocuous!".
I'd tell close colleagues why, then repeat your answer on every possible occasion where he might hear!

Also, I'd be 'curious' in the meeting to know why you are '...being asked about technical details of MMA by people who don't have any interest in MMA?'

Or:

Cis-TERF-hood? 😱

I wouldn’t take lots of evidence, If they have decided it’s offensive for you to say contact sports are sex segregated for safety, get them to explain why. Get them to demonstrate that the policy is wrong and that men aren’t bigger and stronger than women. Look at them like they’re idiots. Ask innocent questions like “so you’re for mixed contact sports?” With an incredulous expression

This is one of those posts that I fervently wish were not true. The fact that my taxes are being spent on pursuing people for a totally normal conversation is just depressing. I'll have to get used to this new McCarthyism, it's not going away.

Do they actually have to? I worked in HR in local government years ago (17 years ago to be exact) and we were able to dismiss some grievances as vexatious if they were obviously bonkers complaints.

😜

It's a shame that it's socially unacceptable to choke colleagues out, isnt it

Yeah I'll happily fight guys at bjj, but not kickboxing, the chances of getting accidentally caught by a really powerful punch and knocked out are too high. I need my brain for other stuff unlike your colleague

We do and I so wish we didn't!

Even when bonkers appeals go external, we can't stop the time-wasters!

I think you tell the informal meeting exactly what you have said - surely it is common sense that what have said is just the fact. I would just assume that men and women don’t compete against each other in that sport. It’s is awful that your conversation was reported - what have we come to?

Having read it all - especially what you've said about the complainer - my guess it has nothing to do with trans issues, but more to do with his delicate sensibilities being hurt by you describing men as hairy and sweaty LOL He'll be trying to be the big butt hurt male, accusing you of misandry.

Does the policy that prevents men and women sparring give any reasons?

Bloody hell it must be a dull day in HR if they make an issue about stating the obvious of fairness and equity of fighting 🤯

Surely it's absolute common sense that men don't spar with women.

Men just ARE physically much stronger than women, and are built differently.

Testosterone has a huge part to play in building strength. plus men are broader shouldered, have different skeletal shape.
Archaeologists can tell a male skeleton from a female one.

You are just stating biological facts.

You haven't said anything offensive at all.

Heck, even a packet of socks said ''Men's Socks'' on them..Is that sexist?
Made for larger, wider feet.

""LemonGelato · Today 14:54
HI OP
If they've said it's informal then take them at their work and don't go OTT as other posters have suggested, like asking for it ot be recorded. That just gets backs up and it escalates to formal faster.""

asking for it ot be recorded. That just gets backs up and it escalates to formal faster.

Are you seriously suggesting that asking for the meeting to be recorded will make HR punish the OP before any investigations have even started? I do hope you aren't HR as wanting to punish people who are trying to protect themselves is very um....excessively controlling 😱

OP - good luck on Wednesday, let them explain why they think the complaint is valid rather than you defend your words.

3 Cs is good -you are concerned that if someone has complained they have little regard for your safety as all sporting bodies accept that male physique provides an advantage. You have now been made to feel unsafe in your workplace. Throw it right back at them.

Sex is still a protected characteristic - especially in sport

I would very much hope that HR is thinking WTF about this guy that complained. Unfortunately HR will get it in the neck if they don't follow up a complaint . The fact that they say alleged is not making it sound as if the outcome is decided. You've had loads of great advice. Do like a politician or Gwyneth Paltrow on trial - keep to the same 3 points repeatedly 1. I had a prior engagement. 2. I was asked about it and I explained. 3. These are the gym rules not mine. Definitely take a representative with you.

Whatever you do, never ever ever apologise!