Does anyone manage someone with autism? Looking for advice.

[MadameFantabulosa]

I manage someone who says they are “probably” autistic, but no formal diagnosis. They are quite quirky, bright and good at their job, but absolutely do not “get” social cues. For example they will drone on for hours about a niche subject that is only of interest to them, and don’t get that people are bored. They don’t have “two way conversations” - it’s a monologue, so the other person can’t get a word in edgewise and they never ask questions to get a two way flow. At social functions (we go to a lot of social functions, some quite formal), they don’t interact with other people, and don’t seem to understand when the event is over and they have to leave - eg pouring more drinks when everyone else has gone.

This behaviour will almost certainly hold them back in their career. But how to approach it? Via OH or HR? I don’t feel equipped for the conversation.

Had you removed the possible reference to autism, albeit the employees description, you might have got a better response?

Nah, it would just have been full of people asking whether OP had considered that the employee might be autistic…

@Rewritethestars1 thank you for your help. I think reading up on communication in autism is an excellent idea.

It's a simple thing - to be able to do this job you need communication skills at a higher level.

The OP wants to support this person to gain those.

That's not trying to change an autistic person.

It's like if you went to a foreign country. You have to expect to try and communicate in their language to achieve your aims. That doesn't mean they don't accept your English speaking. The issue would only be if the person in the other country was rude and mean about the attempts.

The issue here is 2 fold. Those who try and avoid the employee and are rude about them should be pulled up.

But the employee also need to learn the skills required for promotion.

[quote Rewritethestars1]@SausagePourHomme how are people supposed to learn about autism or any disability so we can make the world more equal if they are not allowed to ask.[/quote]
not from people who know nothing about it saying things like "give them a post it note"

@Supersimkin2

Ignore the baiters, OP. Crying discrimination isn’t valid here.

because?

It’s pretty rude and mean to describe someone as droning on for hours.

Occupational health. They’ll work with the employee to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment, whether or not they need quiet space etc etc. Don’t approach it from a “OMG they won’t stop going on about this!” or “they just blunder through” view, but go more with how you can allow them to be them while ensuring they are still managing workloads etc effectively.
this website has some useful info:

occupationalhealthassessment.com/2021/11/05/guide-to-managing-autism-at-work/

occupationalhealthassessment.com/2021/11/05/guide-to-managing-autism-at-work/

this is like learning about french people from someone who's met one once, and trying to share tips on how to make them be less french.

I am not a baiter. I am really fucking insulted and upset by this thread.

The page went funny; I definitely didn’t mean to add the link twice!

@MadameFantabulosa from what you've written the issue is you both struggle with your communication skills. You are finding it difficult to be honest and direct, yet, instead of noticing this issue and addressing it your placing the problem soley with the other person and are trying to blame it on a socially constructed 'disability'. Autism is diagnosed as a condition/disorder using the same manual that was used to diagnose homosexuality as a mental disorder up until the 1970s. Do you believe everyone who isn’t a heterosexual has a mental disorder simply because of their sexual needs and they need to change to fit in with the preferences of everyone else? You have caused outrage as you have a very small minded attitude to a group of very diverse individuals.

I'm autistic and events management is a key part of my role. I have also managed teams of autistic individual who have ran peer-led events. None of us acted like your employee - id prefer it if you discussed the personality issue rather than making it about his neurotype.

Face-to-face networking is only one method of networking so he might be more effective using other methods.

If I was in your shoes, I'd sit down with this person, explain there's an issue and then work together to solve the problem. For example, do you need to be specific in your instructions - I need you to contact x about this event using the templated email I have created, we will meet on x date to discuss the progress of this event, then send them a nudge to get on with the work a few days before the meeting.

You say their lack of social skills are going to hold them back but what are you doing to address the social skills of others. Joan sounds like an absolute ***, its pig ignorant to walk off when someone else is talking. As a grown women why doesn't she have the social skills to say 'I'm ever so sorry (insert name) but I'm not interested in 78s so I'm going to talk to A instead.

I used to work with an individual who'd go off on monologues and their colleagues would behave worse than Joan. They'd turn around and ignore him, then laugh about him to their colleagues in front of his face. This caused the individual on the receiving end of this awful behaviour incredibly amounts of stress and it effected his self-esteem, yet, none of their managers addressed this or their lack of social skills. It was infuriating.

[quote MadameFantabulosa]@Rewritethestars1 thank you for your help. I think reading up on communication in autism is an excellent idea.[/quote]
Especially look at theory of mind. But not the simple sally Anne test they do on young children but how if affect higher level language and communication.

A lot of what I've written about my ds (for example he tries to answer questions how he thinks the questioner wants him too) comes from this theory of mind.

You cannot change this but you can guide them specifically through communication situations they need to be able to navigate in their employment by understanding why they are responding as they are.

Also agree with poster above who said give direct instruction. So for social events instead of saying "will end about 10pm" say in an email. Event will be finished and guests will leave no later than 10pm.

This thread is a great example of the problem we face; lack of awareness/empathy of some neurotypical people such that they don’t realise how offensive their views are.

I don’t wanted to be “coached” to be more normal, I want society to understand my difference, accept it and realise that I may operate differently, but that I can - in the right environment - be effective.

And that doesn’t mean - before anyone starts suggesting this - that I can do anything I want and behave however I want and then “play the autism card” as people like to say. I just may react to some situations in a different way to NTs. But that doesn’t mean my way is wrong.

@AchillesPoirot

It’s pretty rude and mean to describe someone as droning on for hours.

I agree.

Weird that people think it's acceptable to say that.

Dear oh dear. This thread has escalated quickly.

The statistics for autistic people in employment are woeful. We need as many NT managers as possible to start threads like this. If when we do we just shout at them and criticise them and label them as ableist, what incentive does that give anyone to help?

www.autistica.org.uk/news/autistic-people-highest-unemployment-rates

@AchillesPoirot

It’s pretty rude and mean to describe someone as droning on for hours.

I've described plenty of boring NT people the same way.

In fact my autistic ds who does monologue for far too long to allow other people a turn is actually quite engaging and funny. People love how much information he can retain and how he presents it. But they'd like a turn to talk. They are also entitled to that and to want that!

Ironically I find the best way to support anyone with Autism is to educate YOURSELF about it and perhaps learn about tolerance and acceptance.

@FieryPitOfMordor

Had you removed the possible reference to autism, albeit the employees description, you might have got a better response?

Nah, it would just have been full of people asking whether OP had considered that the employee might be autistic…

Yep.

I hope this doesn’t offend anybody, but we all have to make changes to our natural personalities at work.

I’m naturally very outgoing and chatty and have to remind myself to rein it in a bit. My voice is quite loud so I make an effort to keep it to a normal level so as not to annoy people.

I don’t see why autism changes this?

@WildBlueAndDitzy

the host wants to go home, and doesn’t want to stand there while they have another four beers

Just how much are they drinking? Lots of socially awkward people, shy people etc drink too much at events from stress, to relax and try to fit in. Drunk people tend to think they're fabulous and don't realise they're annoying. Any chance employee has an alcohol problem and is taking advantage of the booze being free? If employee is functional alcoholic they won't appear drunk even if they are, not until they're extremely drunk.

Maybe a conversation about how it's not compulsory, but sticking to only two drinks for work events is advisable to prevent being drunk (which doesn't help anyone's comprehension skills) and coming to attention of senior staff for the wrong reasons ie as someone with a potential alcohol problem. I'll bet that impacts promotion if it's noticed.

(I’ve heard them say “Oh god, X is coming in this direction. Let’s move, I don’t want to be talked at for an hour.)

Some sort of electrical device that can be set to vibrate with an alarm going off at 15min intervals (phone or watch or something?) discretely enough not to disturb others but strong enough to be felt and not tuned out, as a cue to STFU regularly?!

ableism

@Scautish

This thread is a great example of the problem we face; lack of awareness/empathy of some neurotypical people such that they don’t realise how offensive their views are.

I don’t wanted to be “coached” to be more normal, I want society to understand my difference, accept it and realise that I may operate differently, but that I can - in the right environment - be effective.

And that doesn’t mean - before anyone starts suggesting this - that I can do anything I want and behave however I want and then “play the autism card” as people like to say. I just may react to some situations in a different way to NTs. But that doesn’t mean my way is wrong.

This is a helpful post, thank you. I think the question is, if an employee is pissing people off because eg they’re making everyone stay up late because they don’t want to leave an event, should everyone keep shtum, let them crack on etc with the consequence that they become very unpopular? Or is it more helpful to say “hey Dave, people usually leave by 11 because the host has to clear up, I know you sometimes like to stay late but I’ve been asked to make sure you leave by 11” on the grounds that in the long run it’s better for them?

The person doesn't have a diagnosis of autism (yet). Therefore this thread could be written without any reference to autism and the advice given (in most cases) is good.

There are jobs and parts of jobs that require certain skills and characteristics. It's OK to need to train people in the requirements of the job. It happens all the time in my job.

I don't read this thread as being offensive towards people with autism. Lots of jobs require you to be a different version of your 'true self'. I'm a teacher and swear like a trooper. I can't do that in front of a class. I also can't discuss my weekend antics with students, or spend half an hour chatting with them when they should be learning. Much as I'd like to sometimes.

Although I agree the OP has put things tactlessly, given her motivation for asking the question is she wants to help her employer succeed (rather than making them “be normal”), yelling “ableism” at her isn’t very constructive.

OP I have a really close relative who’s autistic. If they were your employee they’d probably appreciate it if you said “we all have to leave by 11” or “it’s considered rude for one person to carry on drinking/stay on after most people leave so I’ll give you the nod when it’s time to go.”

There is a happy medium between patronising people and leaving them without a clue that they’re breaching a social norm, if it’s important that they keep to that norm in order to perform at work.

I hope this doesn’t offend anybody, but we all have to make changes to our natural personalities at work.

I’m naturally very outgoing and chatty and have to remind myself to rein it in a bit. My voice is quite loud so I make an effort to keep it to a normal level so as not to annoy people.

I don’t see why autism changes this?

@Organictangerine

Is your natural personality, chatty/loud, a protected characteristic of the Equalities Act 2010?

@MadameFantabulosa

I am not the one who judges. Other people actively try to avoid this person at work meetings and social events. (I’ve heard them say “Oh god, X is coming in this direction. Let’s move, I don’t want to be talked at for an hour.) If they can’t manage a two way conversation, or learn that they should leave an event because everyone else has gone, the host wants to go home, and doesn’t want to stand there while they have another four beers because they can’t understand that the event is over and they need to leave.

If you’re this person’s manager it is your job to make sure that colleagues within your organisation treat this person respectfully no matter how ‘quirky’ they are.

You obviously see this person making social faux pas as you have posted the above.
Do you talk to this person or just watch and shake your head? It would be easy to say ‘It looks like everyone is getting ready to go, did you bring a coat?’ or join the group they are with and join in.

You can do one of several things:
-Watch and be judgemental
-Let them get on with it without judgement
-Be there if things get difficult for them

I also agree that ironically the OP and “Joan”’s communications seem poor too. Joan could easily break in and say - oh let’s have a chat about records later since I’m really busy now but yes I can do the event.

If your other staff aren’t able to be polite and break the flow, suggest to your employee that they book event hosts by email.