Does anyone manage someone with autism? Looking for advice.

[MadameFantabulosa]

I manage someone who says they are “probably” autistic, but no formal diagnosis. They are quite quirky, bright and good at their job, but absolutely do not “get” social cues. For example they will drone on for hours about a niche subject that is only of interest to them, and don’t get that people are bored. They don’t have “two way conversations” - it’s a monologue, so the other person can’t get a word in edgewise and they never ask questions to get a two way flow. At social functions (we go to a lot of social functions, some quite formal), they don’t interact with other people, and don’t seem to understand when the event is over and they have to leave - eg pouring more drinks when everyone else has gone.

This behaviour will almost certainly hold them back in their career. But how to approach it? Via OH or HR? I don’t feel equipped for the conversation.

@StopStartStop

Is this another case of neurotypicals wanting to change autistics to be more acceptable to them?

Or a case of a manager wanting a talented employee to achieve their obvious potential? Stop finding things to be offended by. The only people you're harming are the ones who could benefit from allies in the workplace.

OP - I think it would be an excellent idea to engage with the resources available via the DWP and leading autism organizations (e.g. National Autistic Society) in terms of training and understanding ND conditions and ND people.

There are resources on how to communicate with ND people and to identify and make the best uses of their strengths in the workplace. I am ND myself and I have had some success working with NT people but in general only NT people who either know ND people seem to get ND people.

I am glad that OP is trying to find out more about ND people in the workplace but they need to get all of HR on this. There are very few recruiters or HR people in general that have any idea on how to get the best out of ND employees and how to recruit them in the first place.

they appear to be incapable of holding a normal two way conversation.

This is totally normal for someone with ASD. It's one of the many reasons it's considered a disability.

But this networking issue is one that they need to learn and manage

Statements like that is why people are calling you ableist. That statement is the same as saying a blind person has to learn to see in order to work at your company.

Now if the job was "driver" the blind person's disability makes them unsuitable for the job. But this job isn't "networking" there's other aspects, so it's not the same situation for the employee with ASD, otherwise the statement "I'm probably autistic" would have had them suspended on medical grounds whilst it was investigated.

When it's time to leave an event you could politely tell them this. Or tell them in advance that the event ends at X time which is when they should leave and anyone else who is still there after that is staff who's job is tidying up. They're not leaving because they don't realise they're supposed to. Helping them realise should fix that, unless there's some other reason they're not leaving. So if it keeps happening, try asking why they don't leave when everyone else does. If you can find the problem you might be able to find a solution.

If you're present at their conversations where they're monologuing eg it's a group conversation, you could agree with them in advance a particular phrase or visual cue, designed to let them know they're monologuing but without being humiliating, therefore giving them the chance to stop talking or ask a question. This presumes they have some ability to not monologue though and are simply unaware in the moment that they're doing it, which might not be the case. It's also possible it's happening from stress and even if aware of it they can't stop.

The example with "Joan and the event" is them making an effort. Most likely having been told at some point, or picked up for themselves, that to abruptly ask the question you want to ask with no small talk first is considered rude/not the done thing. So they're trying to do something they can't do, make small talk. Only they've got it a bit wrong. On the plus side, they seem to be able to recognise that when someone walks off the conversation has ended, it could be worse. So they do have some social skills and can maybe learn others, with help.

this entire thread is revolting

@Knotnowdear

I run a large cyber security team and there are quite a few team members with possible autistic traits. In the right role with the right support they have been huge assets to the team. I have one team member who I took on in his mid sixties. I could never put him in front of senior leadership but his ability with Excel and Visual Basic has transformed the work we are doing. I wonder if you should try looking at his role through a different lens? If he's not great at conversations can you adjust his role? Probably what we'd do in my org is encourage him to set up a lunchtime record fanciers meetup.

so patronising

Would a little sort of cue card help?

So if she knows she needs to speak to colleague x about getting y done, when she talks to colleague x she brings a sticky note with with y written on so she remembers?

Sorry posted too soon.

I would try to also make social cues more obvious, yet still subtle. E.g. if you know an event is finishing soon you can say to the employee “looks like we’ve got another 15 minutes, shall we get our last drink before saying goodbye to everyone” etc

people on here are talking about people with ASD as though they are toddlers

Remember when talking about any group with a protected characteristic - no about without.

They are people first. Have you actually discussed what they want to do and how they intend to achieve the objective set out by their line manager?

OP, I wish you luck but you really need to do you research on this and TALK TO PEOPLE!

The irony of NT people whinging about how terrible ASD/ND people are at communicating when they also suck at communication never ceases to frustrate me. You can talk to ND people like people, we won't explode.

PS I am ND and in the unusual position of managing an ND person (or so I think)

the host wants to go home, and doesn’t want to stand there while they have another four beers

Just how much are they drinking? Lots of socially awkward people, shy people etc drink too much at events from stress, to relax and try to fit in. Drunk people tend to think they're fabulous and don't realise they're annoying. Any chance employee has an alcohol problem and is taking advantage of the booze being free? If employee is functional alcoholic they won't appear drunk even if they are, not until they're extremely drunk.

Maybe a conversation about how it's not compulsory, but sticking to only two drinks for work events is advisable to prevent being drunk (which doesn't help anyone's comprehension skills) and coming to attention of senior staff for the wrong reasons ie as someone with a potential alcohol problem. I'll bet that impacts promotion if it's noticed.

(I’ve heard them say “Oh god, X is coming in this direction. Let’s move, I don’t want to be talked at for an hour.)

Some sort of electrical device that can be set to vibrate with an alarm going off at 15min intervals (phone or watch or something?) discretely enough not to disturb others but strong enough to be felt and not tuned out, as a cue to STFU regularly?!

WildBLueandDitsy

I think this is the wrong thread.

I really don't see the problem with this thread. I have two children with ASD and it's likely that DH and I both have ASD, although never tested.

DD2 went to Army Cadet camp this weekend. Very stressful for her. But the first thing she did was find the camp leader and say 'I have Autism and I need really clear instructions.'

I had trouble in one of my recent jobs because I had two different people training me and one would say 'We do this' then the other said 'We do that' - slightly different. When I raised it, they both swore that they do things exactly the same. But for me, the very subtle differences mattered because I couldn't work out what was 'rule' and what was 'preference'.

Workplaces have hard and fast written rules and subtle, unwritten, cultural rules. It is the latter that makes it hard for people who need to know what the 'rules' are. I see no problem in someone kindly making clear those unclear rules.

E.g. I worked on two sites. On one site, it was expected that if you needed a break and someone would cover you, you didn't go for break until you had everything up to date, so the person covering could just 'supervise'. On the other site, I was asked if I needed a break but knew I wasn't up to date, so I said 'I need another 10 minutes to get up to date.' I was told that it was now or never and stop worrying about not being up to date because they could sort whatever it was while I was away. I had to learn that there was a different culture on each site and what was expected on one site was seen as an irritation on another.

OP, I think you could have a general chat about social situations and go from there. Anyone who asked me would be gladly told that I hate small talk and chit chat and never know what to do in those situations. Very few people would guess because I've learned to fake it in a workplace.

OP my husband is on the spectrum. He's done very well at work and it involves a certain amount of networking too. He has not disclosed this because he doesn't like the label and basically prefers to ignore the condition. His work reviews highlighted weaknesses in communication. So they then provided coaching in the areas of weakness. Unlike what other posters seem to think, some people "on the spectrum"/"autistic people"/"people with autism" definitely can learn other ways of interacting.

The company also did an analysis of how different staff members learn and the best way to present information to them. I read my husband's report and it was insanely accurate. It also looked at strengths and weaknesses in other areas - also incredibly accurate. It was from a questionnaire of about 300 questions. This was used as part of the basis for coaching too. So the coaching was very specific.

There has to be a motivation for it though. My H understood that if he wanted to progress this was a skill, like his technical skills, and he needed them to be more on a similar level to each other. He did not view communication skills as remotely important, didn't really care if people didn't like how he presented information, because it was all meaningless to him. A little like trying to explain red to someone who is colour blind. However, he fully engaged in the coaching because he saw the results of the tests and his reviews, saw it written down that his communication skills needed attention and was told by his boss that this was the key to his route upwards. Basically, he saw value in it.

You've said she has lots of potential, she's bright and good at her job. So what makes her good at her job?
Would this really hold her back if she is so good at her job now?

If they are autistic then a diagnosis won’t change their behaviours. You can’t hold somebody back on career progression based on their disability.

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare obviously I want to do some research and ask people who know more about the issue than me, before I speak to the person, which is why I asked for advice on this thread. I didn’t want to make matters worse.

When we were at an official dinner (at someone’s home) the other week, I said several times “I think we should leave now, nearly everyone else has gone and it looks rude if we carry on drinking. We also all need some sleep!” They said they hadn’t finished their wine, so I waited, and then they went and got another glass! Perhaps I should have just said “Put the glass down and come and get in the taxi now. The party has finished and we need to leave.” Instead I made some comment again about needing sleep and outstaying our welcome, but they just said “Oh the host doesn’t look tired!” I left at that point and was told the next day that they were there until gone midnight, the host had gone to bed, and they shared a taxi home with the waiters!

Just to add, he's not lost the autism obviously, but learning communication skills has facilitated his interactions. He still finds social situations tiring, but at least he's able to be a part of them, and feel decent about how he can interact. Previously he would get nervous which added to the type of interaction.

I also don't want to oversell this. He's not suddenly a smooth-talking charmer (thank goodness) but he has been able to add to his repertoire enough to assist sufficiently in his work life.

Well, most of the time. There are still issues that arise, but the point is, it's better and sufficient.

@disorganisedasalways yes it will hold them back. At the next level there is a lot more networking and they will be expected to host dinners and events themselves. It’s a big part of the job.

That actually sounds like the type of thing that it could be quite straightforward to improve, if someone’s motivated to do it.

You probably need to use more direct language, though, and avoid phrasing things as suggestions when they’re really not. For instance, it’s a lot easier for me when my manager says “this needs to be completed by the end of the week - if you can’t do that, let me know on Thursday” than “it would be good if this could be completed this week”

I don't think you sound judgemental at all.

I think the first thing to do is suggest they seek a diagnosis if they genuinely believe they are autistic and expa,in it will give them rights under the equality act.

Have an open discussion with them about to progress in their career.

My ds is 17 and autistic. He knows the things he does that's different and knows that in some situations it can stand him apart and also means he does not always understand where's there's social expectation.

I hate that he calls himself weird but he actually seems to think it's some kind of badge of honour

But he also knows it's absolutely fine to be himself and not to be something else for anyone - but also fully understand everyone has to put on a work persona or social persona in some situations. He gets that he doesn't automatically figure out what this is and how to achieve it and asks for my help or help from his mentor at college.

Although leaving a social event wouldn't be an issue for him - he'd want to know exactly how long he'd be expected to play social normalities for and be making sure everyone else had finished their drinks and out the door so he doesn't have to hang around a second longer than required 🤣🤣

So I guess the solution is to talk to them. What do they want. Is their any advice they need. Where do they want to go with their career and set the usual targets required to achieve that.

Just make sure you don't cross that (admittedly) fine line between making expectations on them based on your idea of how they should behave in a situation compared to how it's expected for everyone to behave.

I am autistic and i had no idea how shambolic my business communication (or all communication to be honest!) was until i was diagnosed (at 39 after i’d been running a business for 10years). So IMO that helped immensely. I learned some basic convo/networking rules that i now keep in my head, i still mess up but i feel less lost and a bit more aware of the whole situation.

As a manager it can be tough to address peoples weaknesses so you have my sympathies on how to approach this. Now i fully welcome support and tips but pre diagnosis i may have felt hurt or offended (particularly as it makes you relive EVERY conversation you’ve ever had and messed up which can be a lot!).

I don’t know the best route but i actually find tiktok really helpful for tips around autism/working with neurodiverse people.

@ThankYouStavros

If they are autistic then a diagnosis won’t change their behaviours. You can’t hold somebody back on career progression based on their disability.

No but the diagnosis will give them rights they don't currently have. It will also give the OP backing if she seeks additional support for the employee in question (IME senior managers don't like paying out for training for one employee, especially if it's something other employees can do easily).

@MadameFantabulosa

Thank you *@starlingdarling*.

@AchillesPoirot not sure where you get that from. I’m not remotely ableist, but I’d be interested to know what I’ve said that makes you think that. I want to help this person progress with their career, as they have a lot to offer. But this networking issue is one that they need to learn and manage. If they don’t, they will either make no progress or will be managed out at a later stage (but not by me).

Not remotely ableist? Really? Your posts are judgemental, ableist and due to your denial, you appear to have zero self awareness.

But this networking issue is one that they need to learn and manage.

In your opinion eh? Ableist.

@Clarice99 are you autistic can I ask