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Original poster

Help my adult son is being bullied at work.

169 replies

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 29/03/2021 22:02

I feel so helpless, I can't go round there and knock her lights out as he's an adult but my motherly instinct to protect him is strong.
He's worked in a government office for 12 years, always had great performance reviews but he does have a history of mental illness that so far has been controlled very well, there was a very serious suicide attempt 14 years ago but somehow he survived.
Roll on the last few months he has a new female manager, young inexperienced, lots of red flags with regard to her behaviour and things she says about other employees, really unprofessional things. She sounds like a total sociopath.
She has bullied him so badly he is suicidal again, she says occupational health can overturn his doctors letter saying he is not fit for work, that he has to call her once a week for a two hour frilling on his performance and if he is unable to finish due to distress they have to continue the next day.
He is seriously mentally ill and just can't cope with his, he is on the phone every night saying he can't cope any more.
Like every seasoned sociopath she is seen to send him sympathetic emails but says she doesn't give him permission to record these interviews, that he cannot have anyone with him, he must be alone when she calls and I can see he is slowly losing his mind.
I don't know what to do or how to help him, surely she can't be allowed to fire questions at him for 2 hours while he is ill like this, he can barely remember his own name.
Does anyone know what the legal stance is on this.
She tells HR that she is "helping" him, she isn't. I listened into to one of these conversations and it was awful that a mentally ill person would have to go through this.
i just don't know what to do, it's distressing for the whole family and we are so worried about him.

OP posts:
Nocar · 30/03/2021 10:21

It doesnt matter if the sons perception of what is happening is being skewed by his mental health or not, if the meetings are causing him distress, real or imagined then he shouldn't be having them. He needs to just focus on his recovery at the moment and the phonecalls are hindering that.

No idea why anyone would advise someone that is currently unwell to leave a long standing career, if its all in his head anyway ?

I don't see anything wrong with his mum supporting her mentally unwell son. He's not capable at the moment, would she be advised to leave well alone for other illnesses too?

There are some strange posters on this thread, its in the work section not AIBU.

Op I would take the advice offered by milkshakeandchips5. Support him to compose a message to HR explaining that the weekly checkins are causing a lot of stress etc. and see if you can get the support of a union behind you if possible.

WeatherwaxLives · 30/03/2021 10:25

OP, if HR are adamant these 'check ins' need to happen weekly then it needs to be with someone else, either HR themselves or OH. Tbh, weekly check ins for someone off long term (assuming he's not getting weekly sick notes) with work related stress is bordering on harrassment.

MintyMabel · 30/03/2021 10:46

OP don't record the conversation between your son and his manager because unfortunately you won't be able to use it if she doesn't give permission due to data protection and GDPR

Why do people post things like this when they don’t know the law?

Even the briefest of gooogle searches would tell you this is untrue.

Whythesadface · 30/03/2021 10:51

Tell him set up his zoom call to HR.
Do this before the managers phonecall.
He then puts her on hands free and let's HR watch and listen.

Dinosauraddict · 30/03/2021 10:54

Ok OP, I'm a manager in a Gov office and have dealt with very similar cases. A few suggestions for him:

  • Check if he is on poor attendance (sounds like he would've met his trigger point by now) and if so what stage - I can't imagine this LM will be sympathetic/lenient
  • Join the TU
  • Check if his sick notes say if the stress is work related
  • Email manager (and cc in their manager) stating that 2 hours for a check in is exacerbating his MH condition, and that manager is increasing stress which is a major risk factor
  • Ask for a DIFFERENT keep in touch person - CS will provide this on request
  • If they do not provide someone else, state that his MH means that he cannot deal with telephone calls at the moment and he is content to KiT once a week, but this needs to be via email
  • Make sure he does provide a KiT email once a week, or speak to the new person once a week - he needs to show co-operation
  • Ask for a stress reduction plan
  • If he's CS contact the EAP

Feel free to PM me if you want more advice, I've been a little vague above so it's not outing.

KD99 · 30/03/2021 10:55

f he is signed off sick from work she is breaking the rules- she is not allowed to call him at home to discuss work. He needs specialist advice or go above her asap

Geamhradh · 30/03/2021 10:58

@KD99

f he is signed off sick from work she is breaking the rules- she is not allowed to call him at home to discuss work. He needs specialist advice or go above her asap
That's not true. See above post by someone in a management CS position (or indeed any other poster on the thread who has said the same thing)
Whythesadface · 30/03/2021 11:13

I just checked, you CAN record someone even if they tell you your not allowed.
If their crime is greater than yours, then no one can touch you, something about the greater good.

Nocar · 30/03/2021 11:18

That's not true. See above post by someone in a management CS position (or indeed any other poster on the thread who has said the same thing)
She shouldn't be calling him about work when he is signed off as unfit for work, the phonecalls are for updates on wellbeing and to see if any support can be offered to help recovery, not to discuss work performance.

WeatherwaxLives · 30/03/2021 11:46

Also, as his mental health condition has lasted longer than a year, and work are aware of it, then even if it has been controlled by medication up to now he is covered by disability discrimination law. They CANNOT count time off sick due to his disability towards attendance trigger points.
www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/disability-discrimination/disability/

HollowTalk · 30/03/2021 11:51

No way should he leave that job. He works for the government - there will be room for him to move or for her to move elsewhere.

I would phone HR and explain the situation. It seems to me that she's making serious mistakes - he can show evidence of lengthy phone calls. I reckon she's using the phone to bully him rather than putting it in writing but she's forgetting that she's leaving evidence of the length of the calls.

Is it possible for him to come and stay with you for a while? I'd be very uneasy about him living on his own right now.

Lochmorlich · 30/03/2021 12:33

@dane8 and @Nat6999. My dsis was HMRC too. Didn’t help that dsis was English so when the bullying happened it was my dsis who had to move to a different dept not the bully.
My dsis has lived in Scotland for 40 years, has good friends but the HMRC are something else.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/03/2021 12:53

They CAN count disability related absence as triggers for absence.

I work in a unionised workplace. I’ve had disability absence counted as part of absence procedures. They absolutely can, believe me.

The courts upheld this.

Skyla2005 · 30/03/2021 13:04

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

He is off sick Pasta, he been signed off sick for a month and will probably need more. He's been put onto SSRI's and valium and there is talk of having him admitted to a psychiatric ward. She's been ringing him at home when he's off sick grilling him about his performance but he isn't well enough right now. I am being irrational because he almost died last time and I can't go through that again. I had police on my doorstep telling me that he was unlikely to survive the night. Surely she should not be insisting on a two hour performance review when he is off sick and severely mentally unwell?
So just don't take the calls. Text to say he is seriously ill and needs to be left alone to recover. She can't force him to have meetings or calls when he has a doctors note so switch the phone/laptop off
AlexaShutUp · 30/03/2021 13:16

@Bluntness100 is speaking a lot of sense on this thread.

We don't actually know if the OP's DS is being horribly bullied or if his perceptions are "off" because of his illness. It could be either, or possibly somewhere in between. The OP is not a neutral party and cannot possibly have the full picture.

I think it's a good idea to request that the contact is suspended for the time being, so that the OP's ds can focus on his recovery.

Nocar · 30/03/2021 13:21

[quote AlexaShutUp]@Bluntness100 is speaking a lot of sense on this thread.

We don't actually know if the OP's DS is being horribly bullied or if his perceptions are "off" because of his illness. It could be either, or possibly somewhere in between. The OP is not a neutral party and cannot possibly have the full picture.

I think it's a good idea to request that the contact is suspended for the time being, so that the OP's ds can focus on his recovery.[/quote]
Why when he has been in position for 12 years and will be getting sick pay, that he is fully entitled to. Presumably he still has bills to pay and needs to eat. Would you say that to someone with a broken leg, or recovering from cancer ?
Doesn't matter if his perceptions are off, its part and parcel of mental illness and the employer needs to be mindful and respectful of it.

Some appalling advice on this thread,.

AlexaShutUp · 30/03/2021 13:24

Why what @nocar?

Nocar · 30/03/2021 13:29

@AlexaShutUp

Why what *@nocar*?
?
AlexaShutUp · 30/03/2021 13:33

Why when he has been in position for 12 years and will be getting sick pay, that he is fully entitled to.

I was wondering what the "why" in this referred to. I'm assuming that it wasn't the suggestion in my post that the OP's DS should ask for contact to be suspended so that he can focus on his recovery?

Nocar · 30/03/2021 13:37

As in 'why' should he leave a job and ask for his contract to be suspended ? would have though that was fairly self explanatory.

AlexaShutUp · 30/03/2021 13:42

@nocar, you have misread. I proposed that he should ask for contact to be suspended while he focuses on his recovery, not his contract. In other words, for the manager to leave him alone for a while.

fluffiphlox · 30/03/2021 13:48

I haven’t read everything but get the union involved.

Usagi12 · 30/03/2021 13:55

He doesn't ever have to meet with her alone. Contact HR and request they send a rep to all meetings. If she's being inappropriate they'll pick up on it.

Nocar · 30/03/2021 14:01

[quote AlexaShutUp]**@nocar, you have misread. I proposed that he should ask for contact to be suspended while he focuses on his recovery, not his contract. In other words, for the manager to leave him alone for a while.[/quote]
My apologies. I think a few posters were advising him to leave.
I think the op should get some professional advice on this really, there are many conflicting views and some people clearly do not understand employment law, or mental illness and it must be very frustrating for the op to decipher something that has been posted in a work topic and has turned into and AIBU.

memberofthewedding · 30/03/2021 14:19

I worked for an organization and was in a similar situation with a stress related illness and bullying. However I had the support of a union and a very good paper trail. When my manager started phoning me she was given down the banks by my union rep, who pointed out that only HR or OH should contact me. I blocked the managers calls.

I wont go into details because they were not good. Unfortunately the organization supported the bully but the union supported me and hired an employment lawyer. The organization were threatened with a tribunal and all the ensuing bad publicity and there was some hard financial bargaining. I came away with a reasonable sum and used it to start my own business.

As for all these threats about do not record the calls or have someone present I would forget that. Make sure you DO record the calls and have someone there to support your son. If not already done so begin to create a paper trail NOW. Better still block the managers calls.