Help my adult son is being bullied at work.

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

I feel so helpless, I can't go round there and knock her lights out as he's an adult but my motherly instinct to protect him is strong.
He's worked in a government office for 12 years, always had great performance reviews but he does have a history of mental illness that so far has been controlled very well, there was a very serious suicide attempt 14 years ago but somehow he survived.
Roll on the last few months he has a new female manager, young inexperienced, lots of red flags with regard to her behaviour and things she says about other employees, really unprofessional things. She sounds like a total sociopath.
She has bullied him so badly he is suicidal again, she says occupational health can overturn his doctors letter saying he is not fit for work, that he has to call her once a week for a two hour frilling on his performance and if he is unable to finish due to distress they have to continue the next day.
He is seriously mentally ill and just can't cope with his, he is on the phone every night saying he can't cope any more.
Like every seasoned sociopath she is seen to send him sympathetic emails but says she doesn't give him permission to record these interviews, that he cannot have anyone with him, he must be alone when she calls and I can see he is slowly losing his mind.
I don't know what to do or how to help him, surely she can't be allowed to fire questions at him for 2 hours while he is ill like this, he can barely remember his own name.
Does anyone know what the legal stance is on this.
She tells HR that she is "helping" him, she isn't. I listened into to one of these conversations and it was awful that a mentally ill person would have to go through this.
i just don't know what to do, it's distressing for the whole family and we are so worried about him.

Is he a civil servant? If he is there should be lots of help available to him. They are very very hot on mental health and this kind of behaviour would 100% not be tolerated.

Call ACAS. They offer advice and guidance in cases like this... Absolutely switch to email contact only and make sure HR are copied on all communications.

We have a weekly check-in policy at my work - also public sector - if a person is off long-term sick. There is also, after a period of time, a monthly check-in with OH. I have never been in this position, but my understanding is it really is a “check-in”, and the focus is on how the person can be supported. A union rep can come with you, or if you are not in the union, another colleague or even a friend from outside work

There should be copies of all the company policies in the HR section of the intranet, and there will be one on absence procedure. If your son is well enough this should spell out what the manager is “allowed” to do.

If he has a long history of poor mental health, and is currently signed off due to same I think it is likely that your DS would be covered by the Equalities Act, and he can request reasonable adjustments.

I think in these circumstances he, or you, should write to HR stating that this manager's style has exacerbated his existing DDA condition, and that you are requesting as a reasonable adjustment that weekly welfare contact is conducted by another manager; it is done my email if your DS is not up to discussing by phone; and that prior to him being able to return to work, consideration is given to alternative management arrangements.

I would also highlight concerns about the appropriateness of holding 2 hour long meetings with your DS when he is acutely unwell, mention duty of care etc.

I really think your DS should speak to his union rep if he is in a union.

As others have said, he ideally would join a union and take advice there.

I would advise reading the company's bullying policy and seeing if that assists. What is the process for dealing with bullying at the company?

HR may not assist you - they can be focused on protecting the employer/manager so tread carefully with them.

Something I would do in his position is write a formal grievance letter setting out that it is unreasonable/bullying/tantamount to constructive dismissal for her to insist on long calls related to his performance when he is too unwell to work. Request that her conduct is investigated. Ask to check in with another manager for well being calls whilst the grievance is being reviewed. Encourage a referral to OH - he has nothing to fear from them. Document everything. If she calls him, take notes of what she says, pop it in an email back to her summarising the conversation. If there are any formal meetings he has a right to be accompanied, never go alone. Most companies will allow someone to be accompanied at informal meetings too.

Don"t leave.

Good luck.

EarringsandLipstick

Stop trying to score points, the OP has asked you to drop it so just leave her be will you, she is clearly worried and upset, and doesn’t need posters nitpicking at her posts, as a chat forum primarily for mums this is a good place for OP to come and vent about the situation.

Shehasadiamondinthesky

Contact your sons HR department and tell them this woman is harassing your son, and he needs leaving alone for the duration of his sick note, and will need support on his return to work.

In the meantime go and stay with him, or have him come to you for a while, don’t feel bad, you are his support and it’s ok to help him.

My son is vulnerable OP and I understand both the fear and rage this situation is making you feel.

I have had on and off MH issues and have self declared under the Disability Act because I can reasonably expect under less than "ideal" conditions I will get very unwell again.

I would definitely speak to ACAS.
If the bullying started before he went off sick, I’d suggest to support him to raise a grievance. He can say he’s happy for a well-being call with HR but not her.
I don’t think he should leave at the moment. As you say it will be hard to find something else while he is so unwell.
If he has home insurance, check if it comes with free legal cover. My DH used this and they represented him at tribunal for an unfair dismissal claim.

Stop trying to score points, the OP has asked you to drop it so just leave her be will you, she is clearly worried and upset, and doesn’t need posters nitpicking at her posts, as a chat forum primarily for mums this is a good place for OP to come and vent about the situation.

Back off Mabel & stop telling me what I should or shouldn't post. No point-scoring. I offered advice & sympathy & actually have stopped posting to OP.

However, you don't actually get the police this or any thread, especially when you can't be bothered to read my posts.

I really feel for you it must be hell worrying about your son like this. For me, on the few occasions where life has almost broke me my mother has gotten hold of me and said to “me fck the job! fck the house! They don’t matter! Nothing matters more than you!” Go right back down to the basics! Tell him he’s got you on his side and you’ll fight for him as long as there is breath in your body. Don’t take the calls from this woman if they are making his health worse! Find out who her line manager is , if it was me I’d call the line manager and in the calmest way possible tell him or her in complete confidence that you are worried the damage this woman is doing to him and he’s not in a fit state to take her calls cos he’s off sick and leave it with them. Can you book a GP appointment for him?. I very much doubt they could sack him when off sick so try to help him to stop worrying about that, but you know what if they do sack him then so what! He will be ok! He will get through it and so will you! Good often comes out of bad. Nothing matters other than getting him through this, but I would advise him not to take anymore of her calls, tell him he will get himself strong again, he will get through it and he doesn’t have to stay in this job forever he will find something else once he’s built himself back up. Thinking of you xx 💐

I theory, once a week check ins are good practice, in terms of maintaining communication, finding out what the organisation can do to enable a return to work, etc.

And if done properly are really beneficial to the employee, making them feel a valued member of a team rather than isolated.

But this is clearly not the case here and is not helping at present.

Your son should email his boss stating that these meetings at present are not helping his recovery and he does not wish to continue at present unless via email. He should also copy in HR.

This should alert HR to a potential problem and especially with mental health they should encourage the line manager to respect this, typically taking a dim view of managers who ignore the advice given.

I would record some of the nasty stuff and report her to everyone possible....been in a similar situation with an evil bitch manager....!!

I am so sorry for what you son is going through. II haven't read through all the responses but I think it's got to the stage where he should contact HR and ask to put in a formal grievance against this woman. She will have to leave him alone whilst HR conduct this review.
All the best.
Amelia

@EarringsandLipstick

Stop trying to score points, the OP has asked you to drop it so just leave her be will you, she is clearly worried and upset, and doesn’t need posters nitpicking at her posts, as a chat forum primarily for mums this is a good place for OP to come and vent about the situation.

Back off Mabel & stop telling me what I should or shouldn't post. No point-scoring. I offered advice & sympathy & actually have stopped posting to OP.

However, you don't actually get the police this or any thread, especially when you can't be bothered to read my posts.

I think you’ve given the OP helpful advice, @EarringsandLipstick.

OP, if you listened in on the last 2 hr call, what on earth is the manager ‘grilling’ him about, if he’s already been signed off sick for a month,so there’s no current performance to assess? Is she going over and over his performance before he was signed off?

I would go & see him (even with restrictions) & spend a day or few supporting him. If he is unable to advocate for himself at the moment, then do contact his HR (above her) & set out the facts & ask that she not contact him again whilst he is off on a cert. If he must have weekly contact, ask that someone else steps in. He shouldn't have performance reviews when out sick. Your poor son, she sounds like an aggressive weapon. I hope it gets resolved. Also...it is a big deal to leave a government job if he has otherwise been happy there for many years. Try everything else before taking that step.

What @Kinder123 said. OP Can you be with him in person and help him through the points? My brother is an HR manager and I can imagine it is what he would say. Obv can’t check with him now as it’s late.

Dent shoot me for raising it anyone - sick leave for an extra few months at the end of your mat leave for DC2? Most women in my work tend to lengthen their mat leave this way sometimes for genuine reasons- exhaustion if they have a couple of young kids - not yet sleeping through the night etc. We get 6 months full pay sick leave.

Just reiterating what a few pp's have said re OH. Tour son should actively seek to get them involved, and in my experience they are more empathetic to mental illness then HR depts. Their role is to be neutral and as someone who has worked with them both in my role as a manager of others and as also as the "patient" when I have been off long term sick they are great. They will advocate for your son and if needed form a barrier between him and the company / line manager.
I hope your son can realise that he is not the one with the issue and get back on an even keel. I suspect that many of the issues with his line manager stem from their inexperience. I hope the situation improves for him soon

Sorry wrong thread!

With recording not being agreed to if it came to anything he wouldn’t be able to use it.... but it would help you be able to recall what was discussed in the calls so maybe do it so that you can make notes.

I would also keep a record of when she calls and the length of the call. Nobody checks in for 2 hours.

If he’s thinking of leaving anyway because of her behaviour then I don’t see what he has to lose by you stepping in to help, it could just save someone in future that doesn’t have a supportive parent.

And I agree, anyone that kicks a person when they are down must be a sociopath!

He could ask for a meeting agenda and insist of meeting notes...

That would be interesting reading for HR! He could email her to confirm what was discussed and approximate length of the last meeting and cc in HR.

He may not have much to loose at the moment.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky Your poor son you both have my sympathy. I've been through this myself I was bullied horrifically by my ex boss and ended up having a nervous breakdown and I took an overdose (thankfully I didn't take enough to do any serious damage) so I can understand what your son is going through.

Are HR and OH aware of his mental health problems? Assuming they are then they have a duty of care to support him in any way they can.

For starters if your son has a signed doctor's note clearly stating he is unfit for work then she cannot stop him from being paid. The only time SSP would stop is if your son has been on long term sickness i.e. 6 months or more and then he would have to claim ESA. Is there a way you could access their workplace policies and procedures? If so give them a read and it should state about SSP and sick leave.

I would sit down with your son and write down everything that has been going on. When the bullying started, what she's doing to him i.e. belittling and discriminating against him, creating a hostile work environment etc. Put every detail in there and date and time it as much as you can and write down if anyone else was present. Get a doctors note or letter from your son's psychiatrist (if he has one) clearly stating his current mental state and the cause of it. If she has phoned your son repeatedly then screen shot the calls list as well along with any text messages and emails if she's been threatening in those.

As for telling your son he has to have one to one meetings with her and he can't have anyone present is a lie. Due to the fact he has MH issues he is allowed to have someone present during a meeting and she can't stop that whatever she says HR and OH will back this up because they have a duty of care to all employees and provide any support they can to meet any needs including your son's.

You can intervene and handle this OP because if your son is not in a fit mental state to deal with this then you as his legal next kin can step in and speak on his behalf if he gives his consent for you to do so (I have this in place when I go through MH issues my mother is allowed to make decisions on my behalf because I consented to that with my manager at work when we put a plan in place to support my MH needs). Don't call the bullying bitch, in fact don't answer any calls from her from now on.

Call HR and ask to speak to someone senior. Tell them who you are and explain that your son is very vulnerable right now and has understandably asked you to speak to them on his behalf (they may want to speak to him briefly to confirm this is ok). Have what you have written down to hand just in case then tell them everything that has been going on. How she has behaved belittling and threatening him with not getting paid etc tell them how it has effected his mental health including him feeling suicidal and the possibility that he may be sectioned over it. Tell them about her phone calls to him which is stressing him out badly and that you feel she is harassing him whilst he is trying to deal with his mental health, then talk about how you were present for one phone conversation and how she spoke to him and what she said. Explain to them that as this is seriously impacting your son you feel you had to bring this to their attention and that you will leave this for them to handle for now.

Once you've got off the phone OP send them an email basically saying what you discussed on the phone something along the lines of "Hi X. With regards to our phone conversation about...please see the following concerns I raised to you about my son and bullying bitch behaviour towards him...If you need to contact me I have included my mobile number. Yours Sincerely Shehasadiamondinthesky" That way there's a paper trail of everything that has been discussed and there can be no misunderstandings but be prepared the bitch will lie and deny it all and say your son is the problem or he's misunderstood her etc. I guarantee you HR will shit bricks after getting your phone call and email she'll be in a meeting pronto over her behaviour and hopefully be in shit so deep that ten paddies with shovels won't be able to dig her out!

I would also make it clear that from now on that bitch is not to contact your son at all directly or indirectly and if her phone calls continue then you will report her for harassment. Explain that you will call HR directly with updates about your son as and when needed. I doubt they will argue with that after everything that has gone on in fact I'd be surprised if they didn't bend over backwards to accommodate your son.

Then take everything you have written down and all doctors letters to citizen's advice OP and get their advice on your son's legal rights, I've used them before and they were brilliant really helpful and introduced me to a decent solicitor who sent a letter to my ex cunt of a boss on my behalf and she was on edge for weeks afterwards she bent over backwards to please me actually LOL. Also ask citizen's advice if you should email HR all you've written down including sick notes/letters etc. I hope this was helpful OP good luck and let us know how you get on and hopefully your son gets some breathing space to recover

Is he Civil Service? If he is & isn't in the PCS Union, I would advise him to join & ask for help. He needs to ask for a union rep from a different office so that they are unlikely to know or be friends with his manager, he also needs to ask for written copies of the minutes of all of these 2 hour grillings he has been forced to go through. With 12 years service if they finish him he should get a year's salary as severence, if he is Civil Service, that is part of his contract of employment. He is also entitled to counselling through his employer which is confidential & independent.

Please reassure him that OH can absolutely not overturn a doctor’s sick note. They wouldn’t even try. This manager sounds like a serious piece of work. You both have my sympathy- a family member of mine was treated very badly by a bullying manager a lot like this one, and it was just awful.