Help my adult son is being bullied at work.

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

I feel so helpless, I can't go round there and knock her lights out as he's an adult but my motherly instinct to protect him is strong.
He's worked in a government office for 12 years, always had great performance reviews but he does have a history of mental illness that so far has been controlled very well, there was a very serious suicide attempt 14 years ago but somehow he survived.
Roll on the last few months he has a new female manager, young inexperienced, lots of red flags with regard to her behaviour and things she says about other employees, really unprofessional things. She sounds like a total sociopath.
She has bullied him so badly he is suicidal again, she says occupational health can overturn his doctors letter saying he is not fit for work, that he has to call her once a week for a two hour frilling on his performance and if he is unable to finish due to distress they have to continue the next day.
He is seriously mentally ill and just can't cope with his, he is on the phone every night saying he can't cope any more.
Like every seasoned sociopath she is seen to send him sympathetic emails but says she doesn't give him permission to record these interviews, that he cannot have anyone with him, he must be alone when she calls and I can see he is slowly losing his mind.
I don't know what to do or how to help him, surely she can't be allowed to fire questions at him for 2 hours while he is ill like this, he can barely remember his own name.
Does anyone know what the legal stance is on this.
She tells HR that she is "helping" him, she isn't. I listened into to one of these conversations and it was awful that a mentally ill person would have to go through this.
i just don't know what to do, it's distressing for the whole family and we are so worried about him.

Yes, Sugarbaby, I can read thanks, and as I’ve said I’ve been there myself. The beginning and end of what the OP should do, if necessary, is ‘I’m sorry my son is too unwell to engage with you at present. He will be in touch when he is fit to do so.’

Anything else is, yes, foolish. But I still think he should just leave. I don’t see what is to be achieved professionally or personally by staying, as long as the OP, or someone, can support him from a practical/financial point of view to do so.

@sugarbaby, looking at it another way, if his mum was there for one of these two hour phone calls from the manager, she would see the truth of it. I have managed cases of mental ill health absence and would generally welcome a third party being there for support and also to witness that I as a manager was offering support.

@ElphabaTheGreen I would say absolutely don't leave. He's ill, this is what sick leave is for. Better to negotiate a break when sick leave runs out. He has long service in that company, he may well be valuable to them. He may have an unreasonable and overbearing manager - that's perhaps a reason to leave but only when he is well.

@ElphabaTheGreen the DS has been successfully working with his employers for 12 years when these issues have occurred. Obviously there is more than one side to the story but if he was happily employed before with no recurrence of his condition, then it seems likely that a change of manager would definitely help.

You wouldn't be telling someone who had recurring cancer to leave their role, so why is mental health so stigmatised? Also rehiring opportunities for a 40 year old with his recent history are unlikely to be high.

What - bosses can drill you for 2 hours on your performance weekly??????????????????????????????
Even when you are off for mental health reasons =???????????????????????????????????

People are posting that this is normal WTF - maybe if you are a whizzy high flying finance dealer - but no not even then a manager wasting 2 hours a week on this would be seen as a ridiculous waste of their time.

I can't understand why no one spoke to her boss/ HR - but I assume she knows your son won't have the courage to do this.

She's a nutter - why would she do this - there's nothing to be gained by harrassing a junior staff member weekly except for her own pleasure/satisfaction.

I have to say I can understand what elphaba is saying. It is highly unusual to grill someone on sick for two hours weekly on their performance, I mean after the first two hours, what is their to discuss, the son is off sick, there is no further performance to review, never mind doing it every single week.

If the woman is doing the same performance review every single week for someone who hasn’t actually worked that week and attacking him in the manner described, then she herself will be very ill.

I think what can be taken from it is the son feels attacked. This is his perception. And that can’t be invalidated. It doesn’t mean it’s actually occurring, he is very ill and this could be part of it.

Op, as said, I’d cut contact, tell them he’s too ill now to take calls, and this can be backed up by the gp. Everything via email. Then focus on his treament sith him,

This sounds so difficult.
You might find the MIND helplines useful. They have a legal helpline and a information one too.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/helplines/

The phone call lengths can be checked by his call record and indeed would be a useful screen shot to send to HR and/or a union. Even if calls are say 30 minutes in length that's far too long for a colleague signed off with mental illness on a weekly basis.

And in the very short term I’d suggest an email to his boss and her boss or HR explaining that the weekly 2 hour meetings are causing him great mental distress and making him more unwell. Asking if they can seek an alternative.
And defo back to GP - that’s a very good suggestion.

Is it possible to tape one of these calls and send it to HR or at least consult a lawyer about it?. Someone will probably come and say this is illegal so do not do it without union or legal advice. Even if he can't do that , your son should start refusing her calls an put in writing to HR why he is doing that . He can maybe offer to do a weekly check-in with someone else in the company

He is may be covered by the disability at work act,

You are actually meant to stay in touch with work during an absence. But if you are too ill, someone can be your representative. And that’s what needs to happen. You need to send a letter to HR saying you will represent him.

There’s nothing they can do about it. However he needs to record all the incidents and you or someone need to take that to HR.

Aren’t Occ Health involved?

There's so much advice on here, all different and some diametrically opposed to each other. That's the problem - these situations are never straightforward or easy. And for those saying he needs to join a union quickly, it is too late. Unions generally won't provide representation for a problem that has already started. You can't take out insurance after the fire has started.

I'm going to just say three things.

Whether or not the OP can be involved, is getting the correct version of facts or whatever, then the OP is in the worst position to be advising or handling this. They are clearly not able to be detached, not should they be - but being partisan leads to errors in judgement and actions. If there is no union, then think legal advice would be good. Get someone who isn't invested to look at the facts that you have.

Secondly, I wouldn't give a shit whether she gives permission for it to be recorded - do it anyway. But there is a trick to this. It's time consuming but worth it.... transcribe the recordings. These are not "recordings" - they are accurate notes of a meeting. They can be used as evidence to HR or to a tribunal. Once they are a matter of record, then if she denies they are accurate you can then say that you have evidence that they aren't, and it is up to HR or whoever to decide whether they accept that evidence and listen to them. More often than not, simply knowing they exist clears up a lot of muddy areas.

Finally, in the civil service you can self refer to OH. She is using them as a blunt instrument to scare him, but you could head that off by self-referring and asking for help, and then telling OH the whole story. Truthfully, if there is no union to involve, they are the next most likely to have any sort of influence here - far more so than HR, who, in the end, are there to protect the employer from litigation. One can hope that means that they ensure that the employer always acts justly, but more often than not it doesn't.

I don't understand weekly performance grillings when someone isn't at work. That does not sound usual. If OP's son is as ill as she thinks I don't believe it's wrong for her to advocate on his behalf - but she needs to be a lot more measured than she has been on this thread and not inflame the situation further by attacking HR or the Manager. She can request that she does the weekly check ins until he he well enough.

[quote rookiemere]@ElphabaTheGreen the DS has been successfully working with his employers for 12 years when these issues have occurred. Obviously there is more than one side to the story but if he was happily employed before with no recurrence of his condition, then it seems likely that a change of manager would definitely help.

You wouldn't be telling someone who had recurring cancer to leave their role, so why is mental health so stigmatised? Also rehiring opportunities for a 40 year old with his recent history are unlikely to be high.[/quote]
Actually, the civil service has a policy of "dismissal on health grounds" Obviously, it's not dismissal as such- more like redundancy, with commensurate package etc. It's used not frequently, but sometimes, in cases where an employee on long term sick leave is considered, by consultation between their own medical professional and those of the organisation to not be fit to do the job for which they are being paid any longer.
In my CS department this happened mainly with physical health problems, though I recall one case of someone with severe mental health problems which manifested in paranoia, both with colleagues and the public.
So it's not common, but it definitely happens.

It certainly sounds like it might be a good idea for you to go and be with him for a while and intercept his calls. You can make it clear he is too unwell to take calls right now. Meanwhile he can get advice form his union or HR.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

She's been telling him she can get OH to overturn his sickness certificate so he won't be paid. This can't be right? or even legal. He knows he has to check in with his manager once a week but that's all that should be, a checking in and a how are you not a two hour grilling.

He doesn’t have to check in with anyone if he is signed off sick. He needs to block her calls, put his email to out of hours and let HR know what’s going on. Given that he’s very unwell at the moment, I would advocate for him and contact HR. Write down everything that has happened, with supporting evidence where possible -anything else is just hearsay - and email the head of HR. This is totally unacceptable behaviour on the part of his manager.

Could he ring his GP to write a letter to HR to tell them he is in no fit state for these calls and that they exacerbate his mental health condition?

You DO have to check in. You are meant to maintain contact.

I’ve been off sick since September. Fortunately my Union are representing me, but they have told me some contact has to be maintained. And they are doing it on my behalf.

www.acas.org.uk/absence-from-work/keeping-in-touch-during-absence

So sorry for your ds OP.

When my dsis who also has chronic mental health issues, was being bullied at work, also a government office, her gp was amazing.
She encouraged dsis to stay on the sick when my dsis wanted to just leave.
Eventually the department offered her a substantial payment to resign.
The gp when told said now leave.
She played the long game for her.

I do think in terms of work the immediate answer is simple, he’s too ill to take the calls, I will do it from now on.

I think though op you need to take a step back ans asking yourself is there any possibility it’s not actually how your son is describing, more it’s a sign of his illness that he perceived this to he occurring?

It may well be there is issues between him and his manager. It may also be he was put on a performance management plan and she was having to do weekly performance reviews with him. Is it likely she’s still doing this during his sick leave and using the opportunity to attack and threaten him weekly or is there any chance he is very ill and unable to perceive reality, it’s got jumbled in his head.

I would take the first easy step, disengaging him from work, snd then focusing on his treatment and recovery, if he’s unable to continue to work and can’t pay his rent, then his health is more important, he can take long term sick leave , can he move in with you?

The key focus needs to be on treatment, protection and recovery. Until that’s complete, the manager can easily be removed from his line of vision.

The problem with bullies is that they are clever, cover their tracks and ensure there is no evidence against them. Unfortunately you cannot control their behaviour.

What you can do is ask that HR is your point of contact rather than your manager whilst your son is off sick.

If the manager does contact you, document it and inform HR. Make sure he requests this ASAP, in writing.

Op I agree this isn't right. I'm civil service and this isn't acceptable. Yes you check in with team members off sick but it's 10 minutes not 2 hours. What can she want to talk about if he's not been there?

Is he not in a union? He needs to go over her head to his countersigned manager or the Head of Unit. No way would this be tolerated where I work.

I was signed off sick with stress caused by my manager. I had a letter from her telling me she would come to my HOME if I was unable to come into work to speak to her to 'maintain contact'.

I had a panic attack. I called HR, who put me through to OH, who told HR and manager that they absolutely must not contact me and that the requirement to 'maintain contact' would be more than satisfied by regular conversations with OH.

I don't know the legalities of recording someone without their permission - tbh in his situation I think i'd record it anyway and send it to HR. The repercussions of her carrying on are much worse than any repercussion of recording her, surely?!