Opinions on women who've never worked?

[mangomcjango]

Name changed to avoid being flamed for whatever reason .

What is your opinion about someone who's never worked - by choice or by situation? For example, someone who went to university full time, got pregnant, became a SAHM and then went into early retirement.

Does your opinion change based on things like disability - i.e. if this person has a disability like autism, or a demand avoidant condition that makes it hard for them to work? Or is it all just laziness?

Cheers!

People who don't work through choice (not illness/disability) the only thing I feel is jealous.

My bil wife is like this (lucky thing). Oxbridge degree, very rich husband (bil) follows him abroad for his work. Married 20 years now. They don't even have children. She's lovely and I'm glad they're happy together.

kids are little for only a short time, then you have about 16 years of a person just as annoying as any work colleague, who you can never leave

My toddler is the worst boss I've ever had. Can't put in a grievance and no HR department. On call 24/7.

@Inappropriatefemale

Op my mate is not autistic and actually suffers from anxiety which is apparently worse around new people and you meet people at college so sorry but I don’t see the difference, college was Full time as would work be so that’s a BS excuse.

I guess it's not to do with whether it's full time or not - if I were able to cope with working, then I'd probably be able to cope full time or part time. It's not the amount of time allocated that bugs me. If you're a student, for example at college, you're told in clear instructions what you're going to do and this very rarely deviates. There are also lots of people doing the same thing as you, but unless you decide to compete, there's not much of a competitive drive. Your likeability also isn't a massive factor in getting into college than it is a job - particularly when (for me anyway) you are verbal and able to communicate, but still have something 'off' because you're not neurotypical. Anything where I get something in return feels like a demand is being put on me to do something well - i.e. I'm getting paid so now everyone is watching me to see if I'm working hard enough.

Also realistically, a very small amount of the autistic population is actually working (possibly due to need, or because people usually prefer to choose neurotypical people if there's the option) which means that there's basically no chance of employers understanding autism on a personal level, particularly PDA that is still being researched. Employers can make all the right noises about being disability friendly and everything (which they mostly are) but when it cuts to the bone that one person isn't getting as much done as another person, it's more convenient to employ someone who is.

(also not saying autistic people can't work, or don't do as much work etc, I'm just talking about personal experience)

Phew, sorry tangent over

@Queenelsarules

The level of abilism on the thread is shocking. The OP states she had a disability and then various posters ask her to justify the validity of her disability, that's just not how it works. Accept on face value, if you are really curious, do some research, ask questions respectfully.

Thank you for this ^^! I'm not sure if you have a similar condition or are just an ally, but I appreciate your effort xx

@Porridgeoat thank you for your support, does genuinely really mean a lot xx

@ItsIslandTime

It would depend on people situation as to whether I would judge them or not for not working - in theory I would question anyone who was claiming benefits when they WERE capable of work. I also think it very foolish to be dependant one another person for money. You see a million threads a day on Mumsnet where people are in a shitty situation because they have no financial independence.

OP, I'm curious about your issues with people 'demanding' thing from you. I worked a long time with a lot of people and I can't say anyone ever demanded things from me. Everyone was pleasant. We got work done as a group. It was a positive experience. It was a professional job. I know I was lucky but I would have thought there were other jobs where there was very little chance of having anyone try and demand things of you.

One of my sons does adhoc programming/coding jobs as a sideline. He does them at home and barely interacts with anyone. I know I might not be correctly picturing what your condition is so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
I'm Really curious if there are jobs that you think you could do? What are you studying with the OU?

Hi @ItsIslandTime. (again, just speaking from personal experience) but the concept of having a job is enough of a demand in itself and I guess being told what to do reinforces that demand. I'm not really sure how to explain it. People don't necessarily have to demand things of you in the sense of; "fucking do this or I'll fire you", sometimes even "hey OP can you please do x for me at x time" has a similar reaction, particularly when I'm already stressed out or anxious.

It's not really a rational state to be in and I can imagine it being really hard to understand from the perspective of someone who doesn't have it. The only way I can describe it is being excessively stressed and worried originally, only to be put somewhere while people add more and more demands of you and you run the risk of social embarrassment and a massive self esteem knock if you can't manage it (i.e. getting fired) and you can't talk about these issues with anybody because most people will think you're crazy / lazy / a poor little disabled child etc etc. And you have to keep juggling all of these tasks without clear enough instructions to manage (with the old autistic brain) and people just keep piling more and more on, regardless if you're coping.

For me anyway, it's essentially my brain makes everything out to be pressure & scorn, but there's also an equal amount of pressure and scorn if you're not capable of going to work, or haven't been able to pull yourself through the interview process.

I can understand everyone's views on; "if you can go to college you can manage work", "if you can't work, you can't manage kids" but my brain reacts very differently to these situations. College and children are MY choices, I have every opportunity not to do them and I (probably) won't be shamed, yet I still want to do them. Plus in the end, you get a certificate, or you get some kids (sorry not trying to compare kids to material objects lol!) whereas work all you get is more work if you're not reliant on the money.

Sorry for the para, christ alive

Thank you for your reply OP. It's hard to understand but you explain it well.

I'm autistic and I've worked since I was 19. Part time since I was 27 and I'm 50 now. I had a mental breakdown over last winter and had to quit nursing, but do a casual menial job now which I enjoy.

I think people should work if they're able to.

I wouldn't judge at all - everyone is different and their situations vary.

I would never envy anyone who didn't work - I've enjoyed a very stimulating and rewarding career. My children will both be off to university in the autumn and I'm divorced so I'm very glad to have a purposeful and busy life and financial independence. My dirk is intellectually stimulating and in health which I think is very worthwhile. I've never relied on anyone else for money.

But I also have very close friends who worked part time - the majority of my friends - and one of my closest friends has never worked as she has a disabled child. It's impossible to judge anyone's choices. We are all different.

I feel sorry for women who have never worked - because they will be much less financially stable than if they had had some paid work. (unless married to millionaire of course).

I also think they've missed out on a lot of opportunity for life experiences, and friendships. Their life will be much shallower and narrower in terms of people they've met and things they've seen or done.

I have a friend who hasn't worked, she's fifty now, and I know she's not lazy, and would have worked if things had been different, but her mental health means she hasn't been able to. I accept that. She has no money, savings, and very little to look forward to, due to money or lack thereof.

@ItsIslandTime That's good to hear! I can imagine it does sound pretty crazy from an outside perspective though, huh? x

@rosiethehen How have you found the world of work? Does it fit your personal needs as a person with autism? x

@Wheresthebiffer2 What do you think your advice would be to a person with a disability, in that case? Is it the same advice?

I only go to work because I need the income to survive. I wouldn't care what people think if I could afford to spend all my time travelling, socialising and doing hobbies.

@DianaT1969 I'm trying to get myself some of that attitude to be honest hahaha!

I also think it very foolish to be dependant one another person for money.

I think it depends if you're married and how much money the partner earns/has. If my bil and his wife, who's never worked, split I would be very surprised indeed if she walked away with less than £4 million at a minimum, so I think she'd be alright.

Having said that, if they split up and she had £4 million to live on for the rest of her life (she's nearly 50) she would have to scale her lifestyle back a bit.

@KenDodd what a life to live I guess that's the overarching dream in life, maximal money with minimal work! I think if I got divorced I'd maybe get 10k and a few mouldy pieces of fabric furniture x

I think it can be an unstable position to be in, but if that's the life that makes them happy, who am I to judge someone else's happiness?

What others choose to do with their lives is entirely up to them. I would probably just think they were lucky to have the option.

I feel sorry for women who have never worked... they've missed out on a lot of opportunity for life experiences, and friendships. Their life will be much shallower and narrower in terms of people they've met and things they've seen or done.
Massive over simplification.
Jess leaves school, has a gap year in Nepal, 3 years at Uni. Leaves and gets pregnant/married. Has 3 kids by 30. Spends pre school years doing baby groups, lots of free cultural arts with kids whilst DH works. Foreign holiday every few years. Attends FE courses in her free time, reads extensively.
Laura leaves school at 16, two years shelf stacking part time in Tesco then gets a full time job as a cleaner in an office block once it's closed. Has a baby at 22 then two more before 30. Take minimal Matc leave before kids go to childminder/family. Didn't see the venue of museums etc. Holiday yearly at the caravan in Bongor Regis. Didn't do much outside of work except take the kids to the park and watch the soaps.

Now they're maybe stereotypes but they're also not a massive leap from many people I know.

Who is shallow with a narrow life experience?

It completely depends on circumstances. If the woman could live and support herself without working and not relying on the state, then go for it!

If the woman has a condition/ disability that prevents them from a career then that is what welfare is designed for.

If a woman is looking actively for work and needs welfare then that's what it is for!

However, if they choose to rely on benefits without the above conditions, have children without being able to independently look after them and they don't have some form of income. This is what is completely unacceptable. Children are not an excuse not to work and benefits are not a life choice. It's so disrespectful to the people who do need it and a lack of understanding of the current financial disaster this country currently faces.

I really don’t think I have a right to comment on the work status of another person, never mind judge them for it. People don’t work for all sorts of reasons, and I think “just not wanting to” is perfectly justifiable, actually.

@SleepingStandingUp So do you think you value an interesting life (quote-on-quote) more than having a long history of jobs? x

@TheMarzipanDildo (interesting name) I think it's great you don't judge! Do you work yourself? x