Opinions on women who've never worked?

[mangomcjango]

Name changed to avoid being flamed for whatever reason .

What is your opinion about someone who's never worked - by choice or by situation? For example, someone who went to university full time, got pregnant, became a SAHM and then went into early retirement.

Does your opinion change based on things like disability - i.e. if this person has a disability like autism, or a demand avoidant condition that makes it hard for them to work? Or is it all just laziness?

Cheers!

Essentially I've just realised that being a mum is much more important to me than having a career (in the typical sense of the word) and it's one of those things where I feel I could sacrifice some mental health & sleep in order to raise my kids even if it will be very difficult with my PDA... a job however, not so much

This makes it sound like you're making a choice that you don't want to work. It's OK to make sacrifices for what you want to do, but not to work.

For me, working is a really important part of who I am, I know this isn't the case for everyone. If people aren't able to work then of course I don't judge - there's nothing to judge. Being a SAHM to small kids is definitely a full time job in its own right!

If people can work (and not necessarily paid work) but choose not to (however it is funded) then I do find that harder to understand.

It would depend on people situation as to whether I would judge them or not for not working - in theory I would question anyone who was claiming benefits when they WERE capable of work. I also think it very foolish to be dependant one another person for money. You see a million threads a day on Mumsnet where people are in a shitty situation because they have no financial independence.

OP, I'm curious about your issues with people 'demanding' thing from you. I worked a long time with a lot of people and I can't say anyone ever demanded things from me. Everyone was pleasant. We got work done as a group. It was a positive experience. It was a professional job. I know I was lucky but I would have thought there were other jobs where there was very little chance of having anyone try and demand things of you.

One of my sons does adhoc programming/coding jobs as a sideline. He does them at home and barely interacts with anyone. I know I might not be correctly picturing what your condition is so sorry if I'm talking rubbish.
I'm Really curious if there are jobs that you think you could do? What are you studying with the OU?

Sorry for typos

For those who choose not to, I couldn’t give a shit and give it no thought. Personally I couldn’t do it myself but each to their own.

@mangomcjango I feel sorry for her, she spends her days watching TV and posting memes on Facebook about how no one cares for her.

She has a very fractured relationship with all her family and now has minimal contact with her children. Having a job wouldn't fix all these issues obviously, however, I think it would definitely improve her self esteem.

@mangomcjango

No I would never judge. I don’t think people do.

I was a SAHM for 7 years and loved it! Anyone who has done it knows it’s actually much more physical than working in a desk job and constant to young children. I work so I can have a cup of tea and a wee in peace! I also enjoy not doing school pick up and dinner for them! I collect them at 6pm and they’re fed and pleased to see me!

Don’t fret what others think, live your life for you and enjoy it.

My cousin’s wife is a bit like that. Excellent education, good degree from top uni, never worked a proper job. Odd bit of freelancing and eventually they had a child so she’s a SAHM who’s made her child her project. She’s generally thought of as “highly strung” and there may be health issues going on in the background, but my cousin is put in the place of doing all the financial work, and very little of the child rearing bit. I know he’d very much like to be able to be more involved but as he’s the only one bringing money in, he doesn’t have that choice.

I do judge a bit. I think being a SAHM to older children is not particularly hard work at all, and the balance of responsibilities is unfair. And I have no idea what their plans are for retirement, or if my cousin gets hit by a bus, or if they split up.

I do understand how education and work are different, especially OU as you don't have the same interaction with people.

Yes you have to do work but you have plenty of time to process, decide, research etc. If you are at work, and shit needs doing there and then, you do it. It can't be put off or avoided.

I'm the opposite. Went to work after A levels as couldn't have coped with uni at the time. I'm rubbish at the self discipline needed to study alone. Great in school in a classroom setting with short timescales. Coursework not so much. The thought of writing a dissertation would fill me with dread.

Did an OU module once, with the idea of getting back to studying. When my work was due in, I fucked off to Ibiza instead

I'm good at getting shit done at work. Good at fixing immediate problems etc. Like the instant pressure and buzz.

A good friend of mine with whom I went to school went on to get a PhD in female fertility but married shortly afterwards. She has two DC and has never worked outside the home. She has no plans to work; her DH owns and runs a hugely successful software company

I guess I struggle to understand why someone who was smart enough and worked hard to get such a PHD wouldn't want to use that and have a career.
Whilst I'm sure in your friends case, if he fucked off with a younger woman, he is wealthy enough that she still wouldn't need to work after divorce though.

I know someone who was widowed at 34. If she had been solely reliant on her DH's income/career she would've been in a much worse position.

My MIL never worked after having her dc...which is why I get REALLY annoyed when she gives off the impression that I don't DO enough! I have 2 dc and I work and my dh works away A LOT!! She has NO IDEA!! Each to their own I suppose but she's so judgemental about other women that it leads me to think she's not happy with how she lived her life!

Depends. If someone who had never worked (irrelevant if it is a man or woman) talks about how exhausting their life is (assuming no disabilities or v young children), implies that they can somehow relate to the lifestyle of juggling work and family, or tried to give me advice on how to do it better, then yes I would judge. But I would judge anyone without the self awareness to recognise when their life experience is different to mine.

Other than that, I have no opinion on whether someone chooses to work or not, assuming that no one else is negatively impacted by it.

I don't think it's lazy whatever the circumstances.

I suppose for me I just can't relate to it. A career is really important to me. I've had a job since I was 14 and being financially self sufficient is really important to me. I didn't even like asking my parents for money when I was a teen.

I love being a mum but it doesn't mentally stimulate me in the same way as when I'm working. I do marketing for tech companies and it's fast paced and varied. It's harder looking after my toddler for sure but the job provides a different kind of enrichment.

Each to their own. I guess I would worry what happens if relationship breaks down. We have family friends where the wife is mid thirties and has never worked, she wants to get into a role but lots of the jobs are obviously entry level and they expect a lot of hours. For the rest of us we did these jobs in our early 20s when it didn't matter if I worked in the office till 8pm. No way could I do that now.

How people live is up to them. It’s none of your business unless they are hurting you.

I've stayed at home all my married life. 31 years so far.
Nobody has ever said anything other than do you get bored at home? I don't I quite like it.
Personally as long as it works for us a couple I don't really think about other people.

I haven't worked since I was 19, when I had my first child (who is now 21). I've been diagnosed with autism and I also have a long history of severe mental illness (I get enhanced rate PIP and have a consultant psych and CPN). I'm not open about my diagnoses though, and my son is autistic, so people probably assume that I don't work due to being a carer or out of laziness/choice. Sometimes aquaintances assume that I do work, and I don't bother trying to put them straight, as I only see them in limited situations so they're unlikely to ever find out. In reality it was partly choice, partly circumstances, and partly how things just fell into place.

When I was younger I was a single parent carer and I claimed benefits. I was also studying, and I would have found it overwhelming to work as well as care for a disabled child. Later, I got married, and I came off benefits, and we've been financially comfortable enough that I haven't needed to work. I've also had another dc later in life, which I have to admit was partly motivated because I enjoyed being a sahm and didn't want to feel socially pressured to go to work. Being a parent is very full-on when they're small, but she is about to start nursery, and then she'll be in school, when I'll have more time for myself.

I haven't had many comments to my face about not working, but it definitely affects how people see you and whether they want to socialise with you. It was worse when I was on benefits, but some people also look down on you when your husband supports you.That's affected me to the extent that I've started a small part-time business, so that I can have something to say if people ask about my work (and an excuse to get out of voluntary/community expectations). I don't have any plans to get a job when my youngest starts nursery/school. My eldest still demands a lot of my time due to his autism, and I'll have to do the school run and deal with all school holiday care, so I won't exactly be idle.

I did work for a few years and then ended up staying at home because I couldn't find a new job.

I never thought I would be a SAHM. Had so many arguments with my mum.... So before I would get a bit weirded if someone told me they never worked. It was the mentality I grew up in.

Everyone will think something of it (of everything! Of course). But it does annoy me terribly that a lot of people seem like they are entitled to always boice wtv opinion they have.... They should learn to just say "oh!" and move on!!

I wouldn’t have wanted to have never worked. I would have liked to have had the option to kit work for a while when I felt like I needed a break from everything, but I never had the option.
I would never judge anyone who was a SAHM, or who had a trust fund, or who was on benefits long term or whatever.
I don’t think it’s any of my business tbh.

@mangomcjango As far as I know she's happy. She and her family divide their time between their homes in Switzerland and Dubai. Her DC are almost grown up by now so once they're off to Uni, she'll probably spend her time golfing and meeting up with her wealthy friends. I did once ask her if she regretted her decision not to use her PhD but she said her DH and DC were far more important to her. 🤷‍♀️

@garlictwist

I'd be really jealous. I hate working and would love not to have to. As for disability I think that if you're autistic youre perfectly capable of working.

Not all autistic people are capable of working! That's a broad statement to say the least!! My son is autistic and will probably never work. He can't read or write and cannot communicate verbally....which job would you suggest??

That they are lacking basically. It’s fine to go to school, university and have a child but you have to work at some point. Not working for the whole 50 odd years of your working life is fairly impressive?! This obviously doesn’t apply if you have significant health issue and / or disabilities. I’m not being sexist, l would think exactly the same about a man. You would be too far removed from the real world and not contributing as you should

My auntie never worked, had a wealthy father who subsidised her, then she met my uncle and had children. She now wrings her hands about her poor pension and money worries. Her youngest child is 38 and she is 68 so she has had lots of time to work but ultimately chose not to. Zero sympathy here

I did once ask her if she regretted her decision not to use her PhD but she said her DH and DC were far more important to her

I guess being very wealthy makes all the difference. Money gives you options and more things to fill your time.

As for disability I think that if you're autistic youre perfectly capable of working this is such an ignorant comment. You realise it's a SPECTRUM right?

I don't give a shit.
The only time I would care would be if it seemed that it's not their choice but they are being controlled or abused.

[quote mangomcjango]@GrumpyHoonMain Ouch, that would be pretty hard to hear I think. I guess that is pretty dependent on their children's age though - if it's the usual teenage stuff, then most people don't want to talk to their mums (or hold the belief that every choice their parent has made has been wrong all along hahaha). Still, I can see the meaning behind the anecdote honestly. How do you view these women?[/quote]
They are my friends so it’s difficult. The ones who are being targetted by their kids aren’t too different to me in a lot of ways - I’m not a homebody, only cook simple food, but I have always worked full time and so have an ‘excuse’ while they don’t. I do question some of my friends’ choices though - a fair few of them could have gone to work and probably should have done (they were on the breadline) but chose to add more kids to the mix instead. Their kids missed out on a lot of experiences most kids take for granted and now they are grown and hesitant to have their own kids at all - but they are only in their 20s so may change their minds.

I kinda expect all adults to put some effort I to trying to work, at least a few times, and to do something beyond watching TV if this doesn't work out. But I'm also well aware not everyone can find a job that they can cope with - I've had to quit work twice for both physical and mental health reasons.

PDA and other autism traits may or may not be much of a problem depending on the job and your manager. I've been assured by professionals diagnosing my kids they're sure I have autism too, though still awaiting formal diagnosis. I've thrived in several 'stressful' jobs yet struggled to cope in ones most people think less stressful, usually either the expectations were unclear or there were personal conflicts. Where 'the job' needed me to do stuff I knew how to do, no problem at all. I have 20 years of appraisals rated on a 1-5 scale, never a 3...

My kids all have autism. Given DH and sisters do, this is unsurprising. It's also bloody hard work. 2 kids and the sisters and possibly DH have PDA features of autism (it's not a standalone diagnosis here).

Looking after babies and toddlers was fine, with SIL2 providing invaluable help. I knew I might struggle with physical and mental disability so worked to create a big network of people who could assist. If you don't have a couple people besides a partner who could help regularly and a dozen others to bounce ideas off and ask for help, I would get that in place before TTC (I advise anyone to get a support network, but that goes quadruple with known conditions).

Babies and toddlers were hard physically but not mentally - you follow the rules to feed and clothe and clean them and provide stimulus, and it works out. It's when they get older that your needs and their disrespect for them come into play and you get conflict.

SIL1 can't deal with that so just avoids the kids. SIL2 decided she couldn't cope with her own kids, thank fuck, but sees being aunt to mine as a huge part of her identity, which has its own problems as they get older (9-13) and refuse to buy in to her fantasies about the world or join in her games the way she wants them to. If she had kids that age, I think she'd have another breakdown and other family would have to care for them.

Think really carefully - kids are little for only a short time, then you have about 16 years of a person just as annoying as any work colleague, who you can never leave...

There's no way anyone would ever employ her despite having a degree - she does a lot of voluntary work and teaching skills, but can't act in a remotely professional way. Not lazy but certainly unemployable. SIL1 pretends to be lazy and living off a man, but in reality she's too anxious to work and can't manage without panicking - she's cared for her parents etc so isn't nearly as lazy as she makes out, but prefers people are pissed off with her than sorry for her.